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PARLrAMENT,of TASMANIA;
' LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, t
[ FlllOAV, jNOVKMBKll 20, 1880. '
Tho PRKSII)F,NT took the chair at 4 o'clock.
Present : Mossrs. Agqow, Hart, Salier,
Watchorn, Mcllicgor, Uriibb, Hooke, Scott,
Moore, Dodoiy, Coote, Smith, Hodgson,
Lord, Gibson, and Crosby.
SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION
" , »"^
Tho'House pro'coedod to tho consideration
of tho Assembly's message, and agi coing to
Council's amendment in tho Supplementary
Appropriation Bill. i M.i/ i
Mr. DODERY oxplainod in .roeaid te this
item, which was the amount granted to Mri ,
Taylor for compensation, that ho had re-
ported ni the first instance that tho land was
unfit for 'agricultural purposes, and
Taylor would have boen done a groat
injin!¡co If he had bcon allowed to
«elect it. The land was aftoiwaids sold by
auction in tho presence of Taylor, who novor
offered lo bid for It. Tho land was covored
with ironstono hills and short fern, and was
totally unlit for agricultural purposes, Tho
griot anco man of tho session, the lion, mem-
ber for Westbury, in tho Assembly took tho
mutter up, and a Solcct Committee was ap-
pointed with tho rcBult that they recom-
mended that 1*200 should bo paid to Taylor.
This was afterwards reducod te £100 by tho
lion, member for Franklin. Mr. J. Scott,
late M.H.A. for Launceston, supported him
in his opinion that the land was valueless for
tho purposos for which Mr. Taylor required
it. Tlie whola of the o% ¡donee taken In tho
matter wont to show that no injustice what-
ever lind been dono Taylor, and instead of
Bullering airy loss, ho was rattler saved from
making a bad bargain. Ho reforrod to tho
in;,nshUncy dlsplajrdby Mr, Rolbjy, who
had opposed Mr. Richards' claim, which was
ten times butter than tho present one.
Mr. MOORE, hoped the House would
insist upon its amendment.
Mr. HODGSON did not think Mr. Taylor
had any claim, as he had ample oppoi tunity
to piti'chnbo the land at auction.
Question put,-"That the Council does
iiisÍHt upon its amendment"-and agreed to
on tho voices.
PUBLIC WORKS CONSTRUCTION
i BILL. .
Tho Assembly's message, disagreeing to
Council's amondment in tho Public Works
Construction Bill, '
Tho PREMIER movod,-That amend-
ment 1, " Maria Island jetty, £800, bo not in-
sisted upon." i ? i
i Messrs. ROOKE and COOTE supported
tho motion, and after j a discussion in which
the Whole Maria Island quostion was onco
moro rovived, , ,
Tho question was put, and agreed to on the
voices. '
On item-Repairs to damage caused by
floods, £1,000- i <
Thu PREMIER moved that the amend-
ment bo not insisted upon. '
Mr. DODERY said tho-ioason tho item
was struck out was because it bad been
charged to the loan instead of tho rovonuo,
Tho motion was agreed to.
PUBLIC BUILDINGS ERECTION ACT.
The message fi oin the Assembly disagree-
ing to tho Council's aincndmonts in tho
Public Buildings Act was then considered.
Item 2-Fencing bonded stores, £150-was
rrodnstated ; also items 5, 0, 7-Volunteer's
'buildings. Launceston, £70 ; purchaso of site
for school and locrcation ground. Evandale,
£300, und cottage, wutor bailiff, New Town,
£¿00.
PUBLIC WORKS EXECUTION BILL.
The consideration of this bill in committee
was resumed. ' On the motion of tho PRE-
MIER progress »as imported, and leave
gi anted te sit again on Tuesday, to allow
him to bring up tho roturn asked for by the
lion, mumbel' for Russell.
TELEGRAPHIC'AND TELEPHONIC '
1 ' BILL.'
Tho PREMIER movod,-" That tho'Coun
cil does not insist upon its amendments in
the Telegraphic and Telephonic Extension
Bill.
The motion was agreed to on the voices.
MARIA ISLAND LEASING BILL.
The PREMIER moved the second reading
of the Maria Island Leasing Bill. The
lessee had the right to select, at the end of
five years, conditionally upon his spending
£5,000, and purchase a certain block of land
at £1 per acre. Signor Bernacchi had carried
out, in the spirit, the conditions to the fullest
extent, and he thought he had a very fair
claim to the land. £5,143 had been spent
upon vine and mulberry culture within a very
short time, as moved by Signor Bernacchi's
books, which the Treasurer had gone through.
In addition to this, howoever, a very large
expenditure had been going on.
Mr. DODERY supported the second reading
of the bill, as morethan the required
amount of money had been laid out, and the
conditions virtually complied with, especially
as three-year-old vines had been planted
instead, of cuttings.
Mr. COOTE also supported the second
reading of the bill, as the lessee in a few
years would be in a position to demand
the land from them, and he was now
two or three years ahead of what he had
anticipated. They should support the bill,
as it was fostering a new industry, which
no one in the colony would ever have started.
The Government would never get the same
rent for the island as they were now doing.
Mr. HART said that he intended to support
the bill, and took the same view of the
question as Mr. Dodery, that the work had
already been done which was to have been
done in five years. He would do all in his
power to support the bill.
Mr. ROOKE supported the bill.
Mr. SALIER suggested that the term
should be allowed to run out.
Mr. CROSBY said he was prepared to
support the bill when some industry had been
established on the island, but he would
oppose it at the present time. He quoted
some returns, which he had procured from
Mr. Sprent, which showed that during 30
years £10,645 had been paid in rent upon the
island, an average of £343 per annum. He
also contended that no advantage would be
gained by putting in three-year old vines,
and an unnecessary expenditure had been
gone into in the matter. The mulberry trees
could not be matured under five years,
though he admitted this branch of industry
was very important. The land on the island
was very much better than had been stated
by the hon. member for Pembroke on a previous
occasion. Mr. Crosby then proceeded
to question a numbor of the items upon the
returns of expenditure furnished, and
thought it should be proved to the satisfaction
of Parliament that the large expenditure
stated (£12,000) had been expanded according
to the Act, in introducing vine culture into
the island. If the freehold was once parted
with the island might be occupied for purposes
of which Parliament might not approve,
he would oppose the bill.
Mr. HODGSON thought the whole of Mr.
Crosby's speech was an illustration of the old
story of the dog in the manger. It was
always those that knew nothing about the
island that were strongest in their, opposition.
He knew the sort of ground to be
found upon the island, and thought that the
purpose for which they proposed to part
with it was about the best use they could put
it to. He did not think they should throw
difficulties in the way of foreign capital being
brought into the colony. Every sheep upon
the island that he had ever seen were flukey,
and the land was useless for growing
grain, and if Signor Bernacchi thought it
was suitable, for vine culturo, why should
they object. He did not care who had the
island, and, was not the champion of anybody,
but he thought that it could not be utilised
more to the benefit of the colony. The
colony could not possibly lose, as the island,
with its improvements, would always re-
main.
Mr. MOORE thought it was like leading
a forlorn hope in attempting to check the
reckless expenditure which was going on.
Had the industries proposed reached such
an extent that they could tell what the result
would be, the island could have been rented
permanently at £500 for other than grazing
purposes. He challenged anyone to show
that the expenditure had been carried out in
accordance with the Act of Parliament, and
in that case what claim was there for Signor
Bernacchi to put forward. He objected that
there was no rule or limit as to how the 500
acres was to be taken up. If Signor Bernacchi
was allowed to take up this land as he liked
he would practically get the island. There
had been a similar case at Robbin's Island,
and the company had to buy back their land
to get the island. If the industries were
established it would be different, but they
were in an incipient state. They should deal
with this portion of the public estate as if it
was their own property, and he was sure
nono of them would part with their property
on the same conditions. He looked on the
matter from a public point of view, and as
they had no evidence as to the results it
would be enough if they adhered to the
terms of the contract. Let Signor Bernacchi
show he had established his industries, and he
was sure the Council would do what was
right to vindicate the honour of the country.
The PREMIER thought the amount of
money already expended showed bona fides,
and that the company intended going on.
In committee any modifications necessary
might be made, but he thought all the facts
showed that the island was not of much value
to the country unless new industries were
introduced, and he thought this would be an
advantage. Signor Bernacchi had six years'
experience in vine culture in the north of
Italy, and he thought the results would be
satisfactory. He had shown all his accounts,
and he (the Premier) entertained no suspicion
about his good faith. He moved the second
reading.
The question was put, and the "Ayes" had
it. A division was called for, which resulted
as follows :—
Ayes, 10.—The Premier. Messrs. Scott,
Coote, Dodery, Hart, Gibson, Watchorn,
Hodgson, Lord, and Rooke (teller).
Noes, ,4. — Messrs. McGregor, Crosby,
Salier, and Moore (teller).
The bill was read a second time.
In committee.
Mr. MOORE objected to then insertion of
the amount £7,000 in the first clause as having
been expended on the island. They had no
evidence of that.
Mr. ROOKE supported the clause, as they
had the certificate of the banker as to the
expenditure. He could not understand the
narrow-minded opposition to this bill.
Mr. GRUBB opposed the insertion of the
amount. He dld not believe £7,000 had been
spent on the island.
Mr. COOTE supported the vote.
Mr. MOORE moved that the chairman
leave the chair to enable the hon. Premier to
define how the 500 acres was to be takon up.
He thought every member would see the
desirability of doing this,
Mr. HODGSON said that certain rules
were in existence for measuring of land, and
this land would have to bo taken in accordance
with them. The hon. member knew
well Signer Bernacchi could not take the
land as he liked, and the hon. member was
only throwing dust in the eyes of the House.
Mr. COOTE supported the motion.
The PREMIER said Signor Bernacchi
would not have absolute choice of the island.
The interests of the colony were guarded in
every way, but he would have no objection
when the other clauses were passed to report
progress, with a view to define how this land
was to be selected.
Mr. WATCHORN believed the manner in
which the land was to be selected was defined
in the contract. He expressed surprise at
the opposition to the bill, and spoke in the
highest terms of the enterprise of Signor
Bernacchi. The island had formerly been
occupied only as a sheep run, and this required
very little labor. Signor Bernacchi
would spend a great deal more in a short
time than a sheep farmer would spend in
years.
Mr. MOORE withdrew the amendment,
and the clause was passed.
The remaining clauses were passed after
considerable discussion.
Mr. GRUBB objected to the sum of £7,000
mentioned in the preamble as expended. He
would rather the preamble expressed that
" whereas the said Signor Bernacchi was
said to have expended £5,000, etc." They
had no vouchers to show that £7,000 had been
expended. After discussion Mr. Grubb
withdrew the amendment as regarded the
words " said to have expended," and substituted
the words " £5,000 and upwards."
This amendmont wis carried.
The title was passed, and the bill reported
with amendments which were adopted, and
the bill read a third time and passed.
STAMP DUTIES AMENDMENT BILL.
The PBBMIER moved the second reading
of tliia bill, which was necessitated by deci-
sions in soma of the Courts at Home, as at
prosont tho Act could bo evaded. r~
' Mr. ROOKE supported the hill, as it:
would facilitate business, in allowing stamps"
to bo affixed to a foreign bill, instead of com-
pelling stamped paper to bo used.
Mr. MOORE also supported tho bill, i .,
Mr. CROSBY pointed out that a bill
drawn in anothor colony would havo to bo
drawn in conformity with tho laws of that
colony.
Mr. HART said that'this bill would liavo
the effect of. making an extra chargo against
houses in other countries. ' -' '
Mr. SALIER also supported the bill.
Tho PREMIER, having replied, the bill
was read a second time, und,the Houso went
into committee upon it , ., . ,~
In committee, ¡ ¡ ,
All tho clauses wero agreed to, and the bill
reported without amendments, road a third
time, and agreed to. -,
MESSAGE FROM THE ASSEMBLY.
Tho ATTORNEY-GENERAL and Mr. SCOTT
brought upa message from the Assembly,
stating that tho Assembly had passed bills to
further amend tho Marino Board Act, and
authorise tho appropriation of a certain sum
for tho improvement of the River Tamar, and
agreed to the amendments mado by the
Council in tho Main Roads and Bridges Bill,
Maria Island Leasing 'Bill, Supplementary
Appropriation Bill (first amendment), and
Poiaou Flesh Bill. The Asaombly felt 'it
thoir duty to disagree to tho amendments
mado by the Council iu the Branch Roads
and Bridges Bill. ,
Tho Marino Board and River Tamar Ap-
propriation Bills wero road a first timo, and
tho second reading fixed for Tuesday. .
VACCINATION ACT. AMENDMENT
' BILL.' .
Mr. SMITH, moved tho second reading of
tliia bill, as ho believed thoro waa n0 cer-
tainty that vaccino lymph could bo obtained
frce from matter that would transmit con
tagcous diseases. There were anti-compul-
sory vaccination societies in Launceston and
tho North Weat Coaatdiatricta, and in sup-
port of tho views they held, he quoted from
tho opinions of medical mon, and tho Lancet.
He also quoted returns to show that the
mortality amongst children had incroasod
singo the introduction of vaccination. Ho
did not think smallpox would maka much
progress in a colony with a climato liko Tas-
mania, with reasonable precautions, and that
waa tho opinion hold by some medical men in
tho colony. Isolation and fumigation were
the proper remedies, and too much had
been attributed to vaccination. Tho com-
pulsory clauses wore a very groat hardship,
us they compelled peoplo to carry their chil-
dren for miles, dospito tho objections thoy
might havo to vaccination.
Tho PREMIER said this bill was the most
melancholy one ho had ever como across,
though ha admitted that tho compulsory
clauses wero a hardship in «orno instances.
If the compulsory clausoa wore dono away
with the largo masses of ignorant, pre-
judiced, or prociustiiiating peoplo would
take advantago of it, and tho Govern-
ment would no longer bo able to keep
opon tho public vaccinating ollices. Tho
first attack of small-pox in a virgin hold
liko Tasmania would be droadful, and ho
pointed out that thoy should not look to tho
deaths alone, but to the frightful deformities
'caused by small-pox. The anti-vaccination
people did not put the case fairly, as thoy
did not weigh tho evidence ( Thoy could riot
1 controvert the fact that thorough vaccination
secured perfect unanimity from small-pox,
and ho inatancod tho cases of tho small-pox
hospitals ' where the nursis and doctors,
who¡ wero well, vaccinated, lived without
danger in an atmosphere reeking with tho
poison. Tho Premier then proceeded to quote
statistics' to show tho unanimity secured
by vaccination from this disease. Vacclna
'tiun was now woll understood, and with good
lymph and proper care, he boliovod there
waa no danger of other diseases being intro-
duced. Erysipelas might occur from tho
scratch necessary for vaccination, so it might
from'the scratch of a pin, but thoy should
not despiso an important safeguard on ac-
count of a slight risk of this kind. If Tas-
mania was not protected by vaccination, tho
island would bo looked on as a sort of lazar .
house.' People would shun tho ialand on tho I
lcastl suspicion of disease,.and tho country
might loso thousands annually from tliia
causo. Ho spoke in high terms of vaccina-,
tion ,08 a safeguard against small-pox, and '
moved that the bill bo read a second ' timo
that day three months.
Mr. SALIER seconded. Ho thought that
vaccination should bo'compulsory. If it wore
not, when they went lo Melbourne or else-
where,- they would'bo put in quarantine.
, (Laughter. )
Mr. DODERY supported tho amendment,
"Ho thought vaccination should lie compul-
sory,'as thoy should consider tho gre»teat
good of tho greatest number. Ho instanced
the Scab Act and various health Acts as
?based on tho sumo principle. If this Act
was not to bo made compulsory thoy had
,bettor -do away witli it altogether and the
staff i of vaccinators. Ho thought thoro
should bo an amendment of the Aot, under
'which modical mon should act as vaccinators,
'and ibeoivo a foo for it. The public vacci
nator, did not como round in such a way as
' to render tho Act \t orkabie .
Mri GRUBB supported the second road-'
ing. ¡Tho prosont Act was not carried out
properly, and 'was really no uso'lit all. Jllt
involved a hat dship whoro people had to
.travel long distaucei to get thoir children
vaccinated. Thoro wero iiundrcda of chil-
dren not vaccinated at all. He should sup-
port tho second reading.
Mr. MOURE said, tho question waa au
important one. Ho roviowed 'tho ilros and
eons of the quostion, and thought thoy should
accept tho testimony of the medical profes-
sion on Buch a question as this. They cer-
tainly should bo careful in sotting up lay.
opinion against that of moil; who had made
this subject almost a life study. Everything
waa liable to hu abused, but if thoy boliovod
this was a proventivo of small-pox, then the
law should bo mado compulsory. Nearly all
laws wero compulsory-in faot, that was tho
very essence of the law. Somo persons said
disease has bcon introduced, but, why did
thoy not produce tho coses When he waa in
' office he had tb watch over i this department,,
and he waa only aware of olio case where a
vaccinator had acted, as . ho should > not
havo done. He roforred to the advantages
of'arm \o arm vaccination, and said out of
10,000 persons vaccinated ho challenged them
to produce tho casca in which it waa said'
those dreadful diseases had boen t introduced.
Ho said he had seou many cases of small-pox, i
and if lion, members hod once seen thia
droadful disease they would' bo glad, to be
vaccinated. He had been vaccinated, »nil
believed that it was a porfcrt safeguard
against the diaoase. Hu quoted from a para-
graph issued by tho librarian, giving statistics
brought before tho 'House of Commons in
1881. ' Looking at tho matter as one of almost
universal application, ' in nearly ? every
country ho thought thoy should bo careful
before interfering with the Act. Ho did not
think vaccination injured tho system, except-
ing where thoro was horcditary prodisposition
to disease, l'ho ovil results of vaccination woro
extremely mild compared with tho fearful eon
soquoncoa likoly to arise from the droadful
diaoaso, amall-jiox. If that diaeoao mado its
appoararico hore, ho felt suro o\eryono would'
fly to bo vaccinated. (Hear, hear.) Before
thoy did away with a proventativo which
waa recognised by tho faculty alb over tho
world, thoy should really pause. ' Ho sup-
ported tho aiuondmont. i .
Mr. COOTE supported tho bill, whwh ho
regarded as the result of tho j careless way m
which tho Act had boon carried out.,, Ha,
had seon droadful cases amongst children in
tliia colony owing to bad vaccination,,'and
there had1 no doubt" boon much earless-,
ness in'tho manner ia which lympht has boen;
taken from IBU, - A ihàglodrop of dlMMtd>
blooof-în tho lymph might canso tho most
serious diseases.'- Bo instanced tho case of a
child which got cancer through impuro \ac
Cinatio'i. ¡Ho also ga»o an instanco of small
{ioi boing communicated to ' a 'soldier on
loard a troopship tbioiigh wearing tho
flannel shirt of a man who had died. Ho
thought vaccination might Lo a piovcntativo,
I but ho objected to tho compulso! y lau, which
was a som co of ii illation to the people. He
suprioi ted the second reading. ,
Air.' HODGSON supported tho amend-
ment. Ho thought tho law might bo better
administered, but in nil matters of tliia kind,
whoro tho good of tho whole community waa
concorned, compulsion was necessary.
Mr. G iBSOJN supported tho amendment.
If tho low wu3 not compulsory thoy might as
well do away with it at once
Mr. SMITH replied, quoting from a pam-
phlet by Mr. Baker, of tho Gwncral Boaid of
Health, giving statistics of persons who badi
died from tho offects of vaccination.
Tho question for the second reading of tho
bill H as put, and tho "noos" had it; a
division Was vailed for, which 'resulted as
follows!- I i ' > j ,: ,
AYES, 4.- Mossrs. Smith, ' McGregor,
Orubb, and Coote (toller). > * '
NOES, 7.-Tho Promier, Messrs. Mooro,
Salior, Gibson, Crosby, Hodgson, and Dodory
The amendment that tho bill bo read a
second time that day three months was then
put and carried, j i
MINING COMPANIES' AMENDMENT
BILL, NO. 37.
The PREMIER moved the second reading
of this bill. , .
Carried.
In committee the various clauses woro
gassed, and tho bill was reported to the
ouncil.
The bill was read a'third time and passed.
I ADJOURNMENT. '
Tho Council adjournod at 20 minutes to
11; until 4 o'clock on Tuesday next.
| HOUSE OP'ASSEMBLY.'"
Í , FRIDAY, NOVBMIIEII 20.
The Sl'KAKBlt took the chair at 4 o'clock.
PUBLIC WORKS CONTRACTS.
Mr. BRADDON brought up tho report of
the Select Committee on public works con-
tracts, which waa read.
The roport stated that thoy had examined
22 witnesses, and the evidonco taken catab
lishod the fact that dolay in tho oxecution of
works has arison from tho existing niothod of
obtaining tho consent of road trusts to accept
the responsibility of maintaining branch
roads, though the delay in the case of tho
Pine-road, attributed by tho engineer of
roads to tho action of the ' Leven Road Trust
could not bo explained in that manner, as tho
trust gavo its consent on the 21st December,
whilo tho date of dealing with tendera was
18th January, and acceptance was only noti-
fied to the contractor in the middle of March.
The committee woro of opinion tho consent
of road trusta should be sought na soon na the
Ïnblic works scheme wai finally adopted,
hey woro unablo to arrivo at a unanimous
decision on the question of lump sum or
schedule pricescontractsfor roads and bridges,
but recommended that W/ierovor practicable
such contracts should bo lot for lump sums.
Thoy further recommended that no contract
for public works, excoeding £10, should bo
let by piivato arrangement; that greater
cars should be bestowed on tho preparation
of specifications which should bo moro
punctually issued ; that tondorui s when re-
quired to ro-modol thoir tendcra,should not bo
permitted to alter theorlgmaltenderexccpt in
the items specially named ; that departmental
inquiry was required respecting tho prompt
payment of contractors and ropayment of
doposits, for though improvements had boen
rocontly mado complaints still oxistod. That
regulations should be issued, dealing with
travelling allowances of_ district inspectora
and othor officers ; and that tho cngincor
of 'roads should be relio» ed from ófrico
work to enable him ¡to usit woiks and
carry out tho duties of inspection, for
which ho was appointed. The committco
regretted to havo the duty forced upon
thom of pronouncing Mr. Duffy's (the Eugi- '
neor of Roads) manner and hohaviour to
contractors most unsatisfactory and calcula-
ted to soriously impair tho valuo of his
soi vices as a super» isiiig official. Mr. Duffy
was incautious of speech oven whero his
Ministerial chiof waa concerned, for ho had
ropeated in his evidonce the unfounded
charge that a contractor wai paid for
work ho had dono in conscquonco of
political pressure bi ought to bear upon
tho Minister of Lands, and his speech
to, and of contractors, was considerably moro
pronounced in choractor. As to tho
Arundol-road conti act, tho committco
could only arrivo at ono conclusion,
viz.: That Mr. Duffy took advantago
of his position, nnd of tho absonco of
tho chief clerk of tho works, to put into tho
hands of his sou a contract which had already
become, practically and morally, tho right of
Mossrs. Grubb Bioa. The evidence of tho
chiof clerk upon this point waa vei y clear.
Messrs. Grubb Brua. wero tho lou est ten-
derers of thrco in tho first instance. Their
tondor was recommended foracceptanco.both
by the ongineer of ? oads and the tender board,
but tho amount of tho tender boing in excess
of the voto, all tho tenderers wero i oquircd at
Mr. Duffy's instigation (the chief clerk being
absent for one day) to re-tendor, striking out
tho items of top and bottom metal. The
omission of these two items as tho tenders
stood originally would lia» o mado J. J.
Duffy's tendor tho lowest of tho three, but
Duffy on re-tendering mado a i eduction in
othor itoms also. The contract was givon to
Duffy, and it was a noteworthy circumstance
that tho ultimate cost of that work (tendered
for by Duffy in tho second instanco, at
£1,78113a. 3d. waa £1,014 lös. Id.. and, adding
to it other chargea for land, £l,7.j0 in excess
of tho vote. The committco felt they
would _ fail in thoir duty aud shirk a
disagrceablo îeaçohsibility if they did not
record thoir opinion that it was inimical to
tho interests of tho public service to i ctain
Mr. puffy ai engineer of roads. ,
The roport waa recoiled, and Mr. BRAD-
DON gavo notico that ho would move that it
be adopted on Tuesday next.
QUESTION.
Mr. BRADDON asked tho Attornoy
Genoral when messages w ill bo bi ought down
to givo effect to coi tain resolutions passed by
this House, \iz.,dredging of Latrobe Creek;
Old Gowler-road; ii ino Mile-road; Laun-
ceston recreation ground, and Mr. Kidd's
compenaation ? , , - , \ J J
Tho ATTORNEY-GENERAL said Minia
tera woro not prepared to ad»iso His, Excel-
lency to recommend provision being made
for any additional Items of public \» oi ks this
session, but would introduce a bill authorising
tho purchase of the ' Launceston' recreation
ground and tho payment of Mr. Kidd's com-
pensation.
BRANCH ROADS AND BRIDGES .
( ' ' BILL.
The House proceeded to tho consideration
of tho Council's amendment in this bill.
The MINISTER of LANDS said tho only
amendment made consisted of striking out
tho »otu of £'i00 for,tile road from Launceston
to Beaconsfield, on ,tho ground that it was
included in tho main loads schedule, and was
thoreforo no longer a blanch load.' But tho
road wait a blanch toad, and would bo so till
the lat of January, 1SS7 ; and he waa assured
by tho ongincor 'ofyroada that this amount
waa required to, put tho road into' proper
condition for futuio nuTntcnauce. Ho hoped
»vhen those matteis had boon explained tho,
Council «ould seo fit to lcconsider its. doter-,,
mination, and consequently moved that tho
amendment bo disagreed to. ' ,, , ' ,
Mr.' BRADDON'aaid thcio was no doubt
tha amount waa required, »»bother tho road'
was a bianih road or a main road. . l" <
Mr. DOOLEY; objected to tho Miniator
taking tho recommendations oí.:a."doomed
mau. | He did not think thoy ahould .return
tho item to tho Council on sucb »"aguo and
weak evidonco as'that put forwaid by tho
Miniator., I i I i I
The motion wa3, agreed to. ,
THE ¡RIVER TAMAR IMPROVEMENT
j .?, ' BILL.
Tho Houso proceeded to tho consideration
of tho'amendment mado by'tho Council in
this bill.
The MINISTER OF LANDS'said tho
amendment conaiated in striking out a fow
words in the third clause, providing that tho
Marine Board ahquld furnish a third of tho
money, which provision had been enacted in
tho pre»ious billa relating to the Tamar, and
had crept into this one by a somewhat pecu-
liar error, whereas it waa distinctly under;
stood that this amount should bo voted with-
out any condition of that sort. Undor theao
circuiDstancca he moved that tho amendment
be agreed to. i > 11
, Mr. 'BRADDON. said, it was vory much to
bo regretted that the House had allowed,tho
bill to¡pasa aa it did, for it placed them ina
predicament,because whilo it was uudesirablo
to object to the amend mont of tho Council, as
it expressed the real intention of the Honao
of Assembly, to agree to it would involve an
unpleasant, precedent for future occasions, as
the amondmont, to some extent, amounted to
originating a monoy voto. Tho Houso appa-
rently intonded that £13,333 should bo spent
for the improvement of the River Tamar, of
which ¡£10,000 should como from tho pockets
of the taxpayers, but tho amendmoiit cast
the whole cost of the »vorki upon the tax-
payers as »»ai intended, though not so ex-
pressed in tho bill, in that Houso. Ho had
Ino desiro to opposo tho striking out of that
Srovision, »»Inch «as no»er intended, but ho
esirod to a»oid ostabliahing a bad procèdent
if it could be dono by adopting any othor
course. - - -
The SPEAKER said ns bia attention had
boon called to tho amendment, ho was of
opinion that it «as.au amendment Milich the
other chamber Had no powor to moko. Tho
matter »»-as in tho banda of tho Houso, but it
seemed to bim that it »«as as he slated.
Mr. DOOLEY said ho waa in a position to
stato that the Houso never intended tho
provision to bo attach ed to tho voto, and
pointed,out that'the condition »»as not
attached lo the vote in committee Of supply,
for such a condition,had boon inserted in tho
following vote-The Latrobe What f-and ho
and'hia colleague had it erased on the ground
?that the. condition, was not imposed with
regard to the Twow. * Subt^nentqr the con
dition had boon inserted by error or other-
wise in tho bill, though the Houso was
assured that tho bill nieioly gavo elfect to
'the voto in supply, and Was consequently ¡n-J
duced to pass it without much cousidoiation.
Tim Government having such a proviso
added to thu bill should have > draw n atten-
tion to it. y . ) I /
Tho ATTORNEY-GENERAL did not seo
what object tho lion, member lind in treat-
ing thu Houso to HO Hinch twaddle, seeing
that the bill had been cliculatod and amply
timo bad been afforded tho lion, member to
nsccrtuin that tho condition was there. Tho
condition insert ed in that clause was ona tint
ho thought had beau attached to tito voto,
and if tito lion, gentleman was HO nure lie
ought to havo drawn attention to it. In
regard to tho Speaker's ruling, tho matter
had not escaped tho attention of .Ministers,
but thoy wore of opinion that the stun of
money authorised te bo spent by tho House
was not in any way inci eased by the provi-
sion being struck out by tho Legislativo
Council. Tho amount atithot ¡sod te bo »punt
was £10,000, and that amount could only bo
spout mid charged to the pcoplo of tho
country.
Mr. BRADDON: But tílO.003 will not
complote tho work.
Tho ATTORNEY-GICNHRAL thought
that was outside tho question of whother the
Council had initiated a mtnuy vote, which ho
contended they had not dona by striking out
tho provision. Still, as tho question had been
raised tho difficulty cuuld bo mot.by laying
asido tho bill and passing another without
tho provision. Still ho was at a loss tosca
how ttio privilege of the Housu had been
invaded.
Mr. DOOLEY : Twaddle.
Tho ATTORNEY-GENERAL : Of course,
if the lion, membor docs not know how to
doport himself while a discussion is going on,
I must call bim to order.
Tho SPEAKER: I trust the hon. member
will not interrupt.
Mr. DOOLEY : I will not do it any moro.
Tho ATTORNEY-GENERAL contended
that tho amendment made did not incrcaso
the amount voted, but simply relievod tho
Marino Board from paying a certain amount
of molloy. Still, hivlnir regard to tho
Speakor's ruling, it would ho hotter to lay tho
bill aside and introduce another one.
Mr. BIRD thought thu cnnclusioniarrivcd
at by tho Attorney-General was thoi rirçht
on;, but could not mako out how the proviso
got into tho bill, except that it waa an after-
thought on tho part of Ministers.
Tito ATTORNEY-GENERAL said therb
novor had been any intention on tho pait of
the Cabinet to insert the condition, and ho
was bound to say, in justice to his colleagues,
that it was ho who inserted it under a mis-
understanding, for which ho was to blame.
Air. LETTE said thoro was no doubt tho
bill did not ca)ry out thu vote as it passed
through Comtnittco of Supply, and tho
Government vroio to blame, as no condition
was to bo imposed this year, though it has
boan imposed on tho two preceding years.
Ho also thought there should havo been
something in the bill to show that tho
10,000 was i part ef the £50,000 voted. Tho
mistake was shared in by tho other members
of the Houso, and the inerrbors for Laun-
ceston were to blamo for having allowed it to
Ïiass. Ho could not mulei stand how it was
hat ho had not noticed it, ,
Mr. BARRETT said tho Minister of
Lands had drawn his attention to tho clause,
and asked his opinion aboutit. Heioplicd
ho was not in tho confidence of the Master
Warden or Ministers' and did not know any-
thing about the bill, and at tho Minister's re-
quest, he crossed over tho1 House and asked
Ino hon. member for South Launceston (Mr.
Hartnell), but that gentleman did not iknow
anything about it. >
Tho MINISTER OF LANDS having ob-
tained leave, withdrew his motion, and moved
that the bill bo laid asido, which was agreed
to.
Tho MINISTEK OF HANDS, by leave,
Introduced another bill without tho condi-
tion, which was carried thioughall'its stages.
THE MAIN ROADS AND BRIDGES
BILL.
The House proceeded te tho consideration
of tho Council's amondmont« in this bill.
Tho MINISTER OF LANDS stated that
tho only amendment was tho reduction of the
vote for the Sorell Causo«ny fiom £.{,000 to
£1,500, and inasmuch rts that amount would
enable tho Public Wotks ilopartiuoiit to do a
gi oat deal of what was necessary bofero uaxt
session, ho movod that it bo agreed to. j
Mr. BIRD said ho undoistoodtho vote was
for additions and not repairs, Vo 'ho would
support tho motion, though he thought tho
Council was i ight in objecting to tho renewal
of works being charged to Loans Bills.
MARINE BOARD ACT AMENDMENT
BILL.,
Tho Houso resumed coinmittoo on this bill.
Mr. BRADDON said that he dosirod to
[ introduce clauses making tho election of
wardens moro directly by thu pooplo. Ho
would move in the first instan co the inseition
of tho following clauset-"Every Marino
Board created, under tho Marino Board
Anioiidmont Act, No. 3, shall -consist of
, savon wavdons, four of whom shall form a
quorum."
Tho ATTORNEY-GENERAL hoped that
tho coinmittoo would not assent to tho amaud
[ monts proposed. Tito difficulty was te get a
constituency to elect the wardens, and hu
objected to tho proposals of tho boa. membor
as creating a constituency that had nothing
to do with the shipping interest. The bill as
inti oduccd gave material concessions, and ho
thought that it had better bo allowed to pass
into law.
Mr. BRADDON said that tho constitu-
ency proposed wero interested as producers,
and advocated un electivo in placo of tho'
nominee boards, which did not represent tho
pooplo. In his opinion, if they,adopted a
£20 constituency, a board would bo elected,
which would truly represent all the interests.
Mr. FENTON did notsoe wby the farmers,
who wera thu producers, should not have a
voioo in tho selection of, tho wurdons of tho
Marino Board. In his district many of tho
wai dens elected wero ¡ in munyi cases ! Un-
suitable. ' t ,,j , »
Mr. DOOLEY hold that no class was moro
intimately connected with the shipping in-
terest thaivtho producers, and thought that
tho pioposals made should havo a fiur trial.
Tho TREASURER thought that if lion,
members wore desirous of giving offect,to tho
provisions proposed in tho bill, itvvouldboi
far botter to allow tho measure to pass'as
proposed. Ho had not boat dany complaints
niado in regard to tho present mode of elec-
tion, and thought that if thoiu 'wero any
objections thoy should . havo been muda to
the Ministry instead of Icing piopoBcdnow
at tho eloso of tho session. , \ i ,¡
'Mr. BARRETT thought that,a clauso
should bo introduced into the Marino Boaid
Act removing tho disabilities 'of marine en
gineeis. Ho had bl ought this and oilier
matters boforo tho notice of tho Treasui er,
and was assured that a lull dealing iu a eoni
piohansivo manner with thu vi bolo > subject
would bo considered dui ¡tig tho rocoss and,
introduced next your. (Hear, hoar,) In
theso circumstances ho thought tho present
bill should ho allon ed to pass.
1 Mr.' HARTNOLL hoped that undor the
now bill tho electoral disabilities under which
wardens of tho board at present luboured
would bo lomoved., 'Photo was at present
ono mbinbor of ' tho Launceston Marine
Board who, ho boliovod, would havo beott
, elactcd a - mombor of'tho Assofnbly but for
the _, clauso that prevented , Wardens from
taking a seat in tho Houso other than the
mayors of Hobart and Launceston. ' ' '
Tho' committee dividod on< the . clauso as
i follows :- -
?' 'AYJLS, 8. - Mo'ssrs.f Fenton, -'Hartnoll,
Braddon,i Young.i Dooley, Pillinger,'Jtfuglis-'
i tonl'Conway (teller), r, . , m
j No Ed. 0.-Mossrs. (Dodds. N., J; Brown,
Burgess, Fitzgerald, Barrett,'Bolbin, Hus-
ton,Lewis, Ciovythor (toiler)., ¡ ,,
Tho clauso AVOS accordingly rojected,
.Mr. |BRADDON moved that tho following
clausojbo insoi ted as clauso 7 :-" The Gover-
nor shall appoint during pbasuio three of
the wardens of overy such board. '< Every
such appointment of a warden shall bo mado
by notice published in tho (lazette." . '
'Tho Houso divided on tho clauso as fol-
lón s :- "" ¡
' AYES, 9.-Mossrs Fenton, Hart, Dooley,'
Braddon, Pillingor, Mtigliston, Young, Hart-
noll, and Conway (toller). , , ,
NOES, 9.-Messrs. Dodds, N J. Brown,
Burgess, Fit/serald, Barrett, Belbin, Huston,
Lewis, mid Crowther (tollor).
Tho chairman Biid that he would vote with
tho ayes in oidor to allow of tho question
boing tut thor considered.
Tho clause was then agreed to.
Mr. BRADDON then moved the insertion
of tho following clauso :-" With the excep-
tion of tho'wardons to be appointed by tho
Governor as horeinboforo provided, tho war
dons of cvory such board shall bo elected in
accordance with tho provisions of this Act."
Mr. < BIRD said in that case thoy hod
nothing moro to say. , But tho question
raised by tho lion, tho leader of the Oppo-
sition was ono that he had done wall to ratso,
for, if this amondmont of the Council was
agreed to, a precedent would be established
of tho Council imposing a tax, bocauso tho
bill appropriated £10,000 of a sum of £50,000
to bo voted in several years, and as tho
offoct of removing tho condition would bo
to increase tho amount to bo ultimately
taken from the Treasury, it amounted to
voting public money.
Mr. SUTTON thought tho Minister of
Lands' motion should bo carried, for if tho
Houso mudo a mistake, thoy should admit it,
mid put up with tho consequences.
Tho TREASURER said tho only way to
havo tho bill passed this sojsion was to object
to tho amondmonts pioposod by tho hou.
mombor for West Devon.
Mr. FENTON did not soo how the passing
of the bill would bo endangorod by tho inser-
tion of the clauses, as tho Cogislativo Council
could throw them out if thoy liked, mid do it
in a vory short timo too. (Laughter.)
Question put, " That tho clauso as read bo
inserted in tho bill," and tho comruitteo
divided with tho following result :
AYES, 9.-Messrs. Biaddon, Conway,
Dooley, St. Hill, Mtigliston, Young, Fenton,
Hartnell, and Pillinger (tollor). ,
NOES, 11,-Mossrs. Dodds, N. J. Brown, ¡
Fitzgerald, Burgess, Sutton, Belbin, Lewis,.
Gray, Huston, Lucas, and Barrett (teller). ,
Question resolved in the negative, ' ' .
Tho TREASURER movod that progress
bo reported for the purpose of reconsidering
now clauao 7. ,
: Mr. GRAY said ho waa in favour of olccted
boards, but would not imperil tho passing of
tho bill by hia voto,as ho thought it would he
of, such immense advantage to the mercantile
community generally.
Tho motion was agreed to. ' / i H .
I'.-pgrcss waa icportcd, and lea» o granted
to bit again immediately.
In committee,
The TREASURER mo»-pd that tho clauso
bo struck out
Question put, and agreed to on the voicca.
'Jho icmaining clamos woio passed, and
thu bill icported without amondnleiita.
',1 ho bill waa then read a third,timo and,
passed. < '
, < THE WARD SYSTEM. ' ' .
, lu accordance w 1th arrangements, prkato
inombors* biiainosa »vaa proceeded with.
Colonol ST. HILL resumed bia oddidas
.upon his motion ra tho »rard system. This
motion was intendod to bring tho working of
tho ) Constitution Act moro into harmony
with its spirit. Thu Attoriioy-Genorol had
moiothau once oxprossed his disapproval of
tho warri ayatom, and on those grounds ho
claimed his voto.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that if
the bon. member could find no bottor roason
for his motion than opinions, ho (the At-
torney-General) expressed aoiuo so»-en or eight
yojira ago.upon a thon existing stato of things,
ho hoped tho Houso would not agree to tho
motion. On this occasion ho was going to
voto against tho motion and try and induce
tho Houso to do so. It would be much
better to allow tho lair passed aftor full dis-
cussion last session, to remain, instead of
tinkering with thoir constitution The hon.
membor would find that the motion ho »vaa
putting forward »vas a retrogrado atop, and
ne hoped at this late period-of tho session tho
Houso »vould not affirm the motion. Singlo
olqctoratos had beon tried in neatly e»-ery
oouutry aud found a success. ,
Tho question being put, tho SPEAKER
doclaied that tho "noes" had it.
Colonel ST. HILL roto to speak.
, Tho ATTORNEY-GENERAL roso to a
point of ordor. ' <
Tto SPEAKER said the lion, gentleman
waa too late, and members should bo careful
to avoid wasting time. Still, by leave of the
Houso tho lion, gentleman might bo heard.
1 Leave boing granted,
Colonel ST. HILL Baid tho Attornoy
General had,nnwittingly no doubt, misstated
tho facts regarding Franco where tho act ulin
itarrontiohement had beon givon up in favor
of tho scrutin de litte by which tho electorates
were enlarged. In England, too, the ten-
dency had been towards enlarging the elec-
torates generally. , ,
Tho motion waa negatived upon the follow-
ing division.
AYES, C-Messrs. Bird, Fitzgerald; Brad-
don. Mugliston, St. .Hill, and Dooley
(tollor).
NoE8,/ia-Mosirs.' Dodds,' N. J. Brown,
Burgess, Huston, Sutton, Scott, Lucas, Hart,
Young, Fenton, Lewis, and Davies (teller).
RETURNING OFFICERS.'
Colonol ST. HILL moved,-" That in the
evout of tho Mayor of Hobart or' the Mavor
of.Launceaton, or the Warden of any of tho
rural municipalities as specified in section 7,
boing a candidate. for, or hold a seat in the
Legislative Council or House of Assembly,
auch Mayor of Warden shall not act as re-
turning officer." Ho stated that he simply
desired to remove these official« from the dis-
charge of a duty which it would bo natural
for tho people to suppose would not be dis-
charged impartially, particularly in the event
of a coating vote being required. Ho did not
intend it as any reflection upon the gentlemen
who now held the ófricos. i
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL hoped tho
Houso would not consent to pass such an un-
warrantable imputation on the Mayors and
Wardens of tho colony. (Hear, hear.) It
»vas to bo recollected that those gentlemen
»vero not appointed by tho Government of
tho day, but »vere olected by their follow
citizens, and that tho position was none of
their seeking, and very frequently one that
thoy would bo glad to bo relieved of. But
Par,liamont bad thought that where these
Mayors and Wardens could bo obtained they
should be called upon to cairy out the duties,
and it waa au unw ai ranted rollection upon
thom to say that thoy could not discharge
their duty honestly and fearlessly. He could
to some extent understand such a motion if it
»vas' aimed at tho returning officers appointed
by tho Government, but the officers aimed at
were elected to tho position thoy occupied.
Mr. SUTTON thought there had not been
anything in the p-wthistory of the colony
to warrant such a motion, and that the fact
of gcntlemon boing members of that Houso
or tha other Chamber of tho Legislature was
no argument for their boing placed in such a
position. i
Mr. BRADDON could understand the
dosiie of the lion, member to ha»-e moat im-
partial returning officers, but tho change to a
nominated olficer would incroaae tho risk of
getting an occasional bias.
Mr. FENTON hoped the hon. member
would nob withdraw the motion, but push it
to a division, when ho »vould stand alono, as
tho movor of such a motion should, for if it
»»-as 'not a reflection upon the Mayors and
Wardens, he did not know what could be.
i JVIr. MUGLISTON said ho would not sup-
port tbe motion, and pointod out that in
'some districts Wardens wero ro-olocted for
several years in succession, thus showing the
confidence ropoaed in thom.
Colonel ST- HILL ropeated that ho in no
way intended to cast any reflection upon any
gentleman, and pointed out that Parliament
had already decided not to allow a Mayor or
Warden to act as returntng officer in tho
oi-oiit of his boing a candidato, and he only
'wished to extend that to other constitu-
encies or to membership of tho Legislature.
The motion waa then negatived.
CHRIST COLLEGE AND THE HIGH
. j SCHOOL.
Mr. BIRD moved,-"That a Select Com-
mittee bo appointed to enquire whethor the
purpose for »vhich the founder« of the High
Schoo),|Hobart, secured the grant of the site
from tho Crown is at present being carried
out ;' and to ascertain whether any terms can
ibo"arrangod by which tho separate intorests
of' tho High School and Chi ist's College can
bo so associated as to pro» ido ona national
hasis a college whoro technical and other
ptactic.il instruction may bo imparted, and
»vhich shall be the nucleus of a Tasmanian
Univciaity. Tho committee to havo power
to send for persons and papei s, and to con-
sist of Messrs. Braddon, Lucas, Rciboy,
Pillingor, Loivis, Haitnoll, and tho mo»-or.
Ho rogrettoil the soision had so far advanced
before an opportunity had occurro 1 for bring-
ing foi »aid this motion, which ho felt sure
would meet »» ith the sympathy of very many
people, because tho timo that remained waa
too limited *to make tho complote enquiry
that .waa desirable. He would rathor urge
no»v that the Government should take
the matter' in hand, and appoint
o Boyal Commission to endeavour to
placo' tho higher education of the colony
on the beat posai bio basis. Ho felt the time
was coming »vhon our present system of ex-
hibitions and scholarships loading up to the
JEnglibhjUnivoraitiea should glvo placo to a
local university, where degroea would bo ro
cogniaed outside tho colony. Tho amalgama-
tion of tho High School with Christ's College
had met with a great: deal of dissatisfaction,
and tliorepiesBiitativo3 of tho original sub-
scribers to the ¡High School had met and ap-
pointed a committco to »»atoh over their
rights! This committco had met, aud sub-
sequently he waa aakod to bring tho mattor
boforo Parliament to ascertain »vhothor those
rights had. beon violated by tho amalgama-
tion. 1 It theil seemed to him that it waa not
a mattor for Pnilîoinontary enquiry ; but
upon f ui thor consideration, and leai nmg that
tho aita upon which the High School stood
had boon granted by tho Government for a
school'undor tho terms of tho prospectus issued
-an uUBOctarian school-it appeared to him
that a denominational school had obtained
an undenominational grout, so that there was
ground in that ¡for a Parliamentary enquiry.
Ho had movod in tho mattor last year, but
only to the extent of enquiring whethor tho
amalgamation has any relation of tho con
dition,of tho grant He now went farther,
aud desired to enquire whether something
bettorcould bo dono, since tho High School
had) broken down, for the canso of higher
education in tho colony. He did not affirm
th'it tho terms »voro violated, but thought
from »vhat ho had read that thoro was reason
to bolievo so, and thercforo urged that an in-
quiry should bo grantfed. Thoro were those
who believed that a wrong had beon dono to
tho original subscribers to Christ's College
by having it existing ia'Hobart at all, and
certainly that a wrong stop »»-as takon when
tho amalgamation took place. A select com
.mitteo »vas appointed to inquiro into tho
matter four years ago, and ho quoted from it
to show that tho committee wero of opinion
that tho . funds1 of Christ'B College wore
really boing impvopeily employed inj making
an educational establishment in Hobart.
Coming to the second part of 'the íesolution
ho said many of .tho, friends of Christ's,
College would be disappointed sinco the
amalgamation, and there wasa gradual courso
of dwindling down in the attendance. He
thoughtthat»vithGovernmcntassistaucesorae
thing might bo dono to make it a Tasmanian
University or tho nucleus of one. Ho hoped
that considering the late period of tho
session', which mado the appointment' of a
committco impracticable, that a commission
would bo granted. If Ministers promised
this he »vould »vithdr.aw the motion.
Mr. LUCAS said that tho motion w-as a
»vida ono and of considerable importance
He approved of tho latter pal t of the motion)
but thought tho fit st part rolatiire to a pii
vato matter involved logal rights which tliia
Houso could not deal \» ith so long as tho
parties concerned »vero agreed. Ho roforrcd
to tho terms of amalgamation, and showed
that it was arranged by tho lato wordon,
| Air. Hairia. It had boen partially
a failure, but ho boliovod that waa
ow'ing to a courao »vhich had boon noir
remedied. ' Ho approved of a commission to
enquiro into the matter dealt with in a second
part of the motion. >
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that
when a similar, .motion was proposed last
session ho had had very little sympathy with
it, but unfortunately smco then tho anticipa-
tions' formed in regard to the amalgamation
tad not boro'raliNd.' "No institution could '
have started under botter auspices than
Christ's College after the amalgamation, but
it had resulted in almos t a completo failure.
There must be some reason for this, and if
tiley could get at that reason without infring
. ing private right*, and ass ming a privilege
Puifiaincnt did not possess, hu would be
glad. Ile coiisidctcd that if the Crown
gavo a grant of land, as fctatcd in tho motion,
Parliament had a rinht to enquire into it, but
it appeared to lum that tho lutter part of tho
motion, although good in itself, could not bo
cm ried out without tho consent of tho parties
interested. Ho considered i hat to promise a
commission would bo going a step beyond
that which tho Houso should go, but at tho
samo timo he considorcd it desirable that
something should bo done, and suggested
that tho mattter should bo left in tho hands
of Ministers te take such steps as they felt
they were empowered to do, without in-
fringing private rights and in the best
interests of the community.
Mr. LEWIS understood that tho site was
granted for a school on a strictly unsectariun
basis, and that Parliament hail power to re
sumo the land if the original intention was
not carried out He therefore thought that
it was quite within tho provinco of Parlia-
ment te grant an enquiry. While admitting
tltc present systom of education at Christ's
College was unsatisfactory, ho thought the
colony was scarcely in a position to start a
university of its own, but suggested a form of
amalgamation with other universities in the
colonies on tho basis that Owen's College
(Alanebester), and similar institutions in,
England occupiod in relation to tho universi-
ties.
Dr. CROWTHER was of opinion that
Christ's College would always bo a failure ao
long as it ran a school show. Tho original
idea was a " college," and,ho thought it per-
fectly feasible to havo the nucleus, of a
university formed if it was taken up in the
Groper spirit Ho hopod a commission would ,
e granted, as it would show what could be
done, and how tho| money spent on Tas-
manian scholarships could be moro profitably
expended. '
Mr. BRADDON thought that tho House
would rightly exercise its functions in mak-
ing this inquiry, as land was granted by tho
Ciownin the case of the High School, and
large endowments were given to Christ's
College Ho regretted that the hon. member
for Westbury was-- sjot presont, as he had
taken a very active interest in that institu-
tion, and had granted an endowment to it
Ho thought the matter ono of eminent im-
portance, and trusted tho Government would
seo its way cluar to appoint a Royal Com-
mission and have a thorough investigation of
tho wholo subject.
Mr. GRAY, bolleving that s violation of
tho original grant to the High School had
taken place, hoped the Royal Commission
w ould be appointed. ,
Mr. BIRD expressed his pleasure'at tho
goneral acknowledgment as to the right of
enquiry into tho use which had been made of
the graut given to the High School. He
thought there would be no difficulty in issuing
a Royal Commission to enquire into the
rlzht, and into the desirableness of institut-
ing a more national institution. He thought,
too, that the Macnaughtan and, Newcastle
scholarships, originally granted in connection
with the High School, hod lapsed in conse
quenco.of the amalgamation, and tho more the
question was looked at tho more reason was
discovered for instituting an investigation.
If ho could get any definite promise of a com-
mission he weuld withdraw the motlon.which
otherwise would be carried, as ho did not be-
lieve even the Ministers thomse ves would
oppose it He would notadmit that Royal
Commissions were1 gcnorally failures, for
Îood results bad been obtained from tho
loyal Commissions on education, lunatic
asylums, and other matters. Ho would let
the question go to a vote and trust to the
eeaeral favour it bad met with to induco tho
Government to issuo a Royal Commission.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL : There is
no objection on the part of tim Governemnt,
provided it had the power.
The motion was then agreed to.
DEFENCES OF THE COLONY.
Mr. BRADDON moved for leavo to amend
his motion for a select committee on the De-
fence Force to an address to tho Governor
for the appointment of a Royal Commission
on the subject.
Mr. LET PE objected to such an important
motion being brought foi ward without any
notico, as ho ncvor know of tho recommenda-
tions of a Royal Commission being carried
out. Ho expressed his surprise at the Go-
vernment assisting such a motion when they
had opposed in every nay the appointment
of a bolect Committee.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the
subject had been fully discussed, and tho Go-
vernment had intimated that it would con-
sent to a Royal Commission being issued.
The objection to a Select Committee was that
such a question required a body of gentlemen
with technical knowledge and experience to
enquire into it ;
Mr. GRAY objectedT the motion, which
was a shifting of the "original giound. He
saw no good to bo derived from a commission,
and believed a commftt.ee of that House was
quite as competent to conduct the onquiry
as any other body. He objected to these
secret arrangements between the leader of
the Government and tho iuuüei of Me Oppo-
sition.
, The ATTORNEY-GENERAL denied that
there was any secret arrangement.
Mr. FITZGERALD said whatever ar-
rangement there was had been made in the
open House.
Leave was granted to amend the motion on
the following division :
AYES, l8.-Messrs. Dodds, N. J. Brown,
Burgess, Davies, Braddon, Hartnoll, Muglis
ton, Huston, Belbin, St. Hill, Crisp, Hart,
Fitzgerald, Locus, Fenton, Bird, and Lewis
(teller).
NOES, 5.-Messrs. Lotto, Gray, Conway,
Dooley, and Sutton (toller).
The motion as amended was thon agreed to.
UNOPPOSED MOTIONS.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL intimated
that there would be no opposition by the
Government to a number of motions, which
were then taken. -
Mr. FENTON moved,-"That in tho
opinion of this House the construction of
light railways to act as feeders to the main
trunk linos will be of advantage to the
colony, and that the Minister of Lnnds should
obtain an estimate of the probable ccst of
constructing such class of railway from Ulver-
stone River, Leven, to the Castra district,
the estimate to be prepared in timo for
consideration during next session of Parlia-
ment." Agreed to. i
Mr. BRADDON for Mr. HAWKES moved,
-" That the petition presented to His Ex-
cellency the Governor-in-Council, . and
signed by eight hundred and forty-five (845)
miners and others, praying that a reward be
granted to George Rennison Bell, for tho
discovery of tin ore on.the North East Coast
of Tasmania, bo laid upon the table of this
House." Agrcod to. >
Mr. HARTNOLL moved,-" That tho
Minister for Defence do lay upon the tablo
of this House a statemont showing the
amount expended iu fortifying tho Derwent
for the protection of Hobart, and tho sum
oxpended in fortifying tho Tamar for tho
protection of Launceston." Agreed to.
Mr. BRADDON for Mr. YOUNO moved,
-" That this House will resolve itself into
a committee of the whole House to con-
sider an address to bo presented to His
Excellency the Governor, praying that His
Excellency will bo pleased te rccommpnd
that tho petition of tho résidants of
Roland relative to a road from Roland
to the railway station at Kimberlx's
Ford be laid on the table of the House."
Agreed to.
Mr. ,LEWIS moved,-"That an address bo
presented to His Excellency tho Adminis-
trator of tho Government, praying that His
Excellency will bo pleased to causo to bo laid
upon the table of this Hutiso the petitiou of
the Warden and council of tho municipal
district of Clarence relativ o to the purchoso
of tho steam foi ry-boat Kangaroo." Agiood
to. i !
Mr. (BIRD moved,-" That a Select Com-
mittee bo appointed to enquire whether the
action of the coroner in refusing to accept
the unanimous verdict of tho jury at the in-
quest on the body of James Jones, of Evan-
dale, was justified by tho evidence taken /at
the inquest Tho committee to have powor
to send for persons and papers, and to consist
'of Messrs. Lewis, Young, Fenton, Hartnoll,
Sidcbottom,Couway, and the mover." Agreed
to. I
Colonel ST. HILL moved,-"That there be
laid upon tho table of this House, the parado
' states ' of-(1). Tho Riflo Regiment and
Reserves (Southern division), attending the
daylight parade of the Gth inst. ,(2)., Also,
of tho Northern Defenco Forco encampment
of the Uth inst." Agreed to.
'PAYMENT OF MEMBERS. ,
The'Houso went, into committee to con-
sider a resolution for an address to the Go-
vernor for the appropriation of a sum not
exceeding £0,000 to provide for the payment
of the'services of members of Parliament,
other than Ministers of tho Crown, at the
rate of £100 a year each.
Mr. FITZGERALD said the quostion had
been thoroughly discussed, ao he would only
brifiy refer to the arguments in favour of
payment of members, of which he gave a
resume. Sine the question had been last dis-
cussed! Lord Carrington, the Governor of
New South Wales, had paid some high testi-
mony to the good results attending demo-
cratic institutions in Australia. As the prin-
ciple of payment of members was ono
generally recognised thottghout Australia
that Houso would not be taking an unusual
course in adopting it so that tho services of
any member of tho community would bo
availablo to tho State if tho oloctors desired
thom.
' Mr. BIRD said he would support the
losolution, though it would havo moro fully
met with his approval if it had been confinad
to thoso whoso homes wero at a distauco
from tho capital, for it took tho form of
merely reimbursing them for tho oxpenso
they wcio put to, and mombors rosiding in
tho city wero not put to any oxponso. Ho
also thoucht it should bo accompanied with a
penult for non-attendance, viewing the thin
state the Houso assumed towards the closo of
each session, when tho most important
matters were considered. - M <
Mr. BRADDON said'he bad stated" that
lie wa» in a difficulty upon this question, aa '
! ho boliovod a majority of his constituents
{ were in favour of it Since then he hail
offered to resign his scat, but had boen told
that most of his constituents wera opposed to
his taking that course, for although they
were in favour of it, ami ha was opposed to
it, thoy desired ho should do as hu liked, and
had stated it nude no difference in tho last
election, und would inako no difference in a
future ona. Ho was now fico to act as ho
liked, and regruttcd ho could not support the
resolution of his lion, friend, as hu believed
the money could bo much botter «pent. Tho
proposal failed to meet the position taken
up by tho advocates of paymontof mombers,
si. as to enable those to.unter tho Houso who
could not otherwise alford to do so,
becauso it was not payment ; nor on the
other hand was it merely the pay-
ment of actual expenses. Lord, Carling-
ton may havo been strongly impressed
with tho behaviour of those who mot beneath
the roof of the New South Wales Legislativo
Assembly. In fact, hu did not seo how he
could bo otherwise than impressed. Ho
believed if it wero put to tho peoi le which
.they would ,do-pay their morubeis or have
tho money spent on public works-they would
decide at onco in favour of tho much moro
needed expenditure. Ho was certain, if
mombers wera paid as proposed, it would not
make any difference in the personnel of tho
House, and it therefore amounted to voting
monoy into their own pockets. i
Mr. LUCAS and Mr. HUSTON briefly
opposed the resolution. .
Colonel ST. HILL pointed out that the
disgraceful scenes that had recently occurred
i in j tho New South Wales Assembly was
1 caused by wealthy squatters, not by the poor
representatives his motion was intended to
pave the way for, so that all mitrht bo repre-
sented.. In 'New Zealand they paid hon.
members, and they could challenge compari-
son there with any Legislature in the 'colo-
nies in ovory respect, , i ' .
Mr. CRISP opposed the resolution, and
stated, he had offered his services to the
electors without money and without price.
(Cheers and laughter.), ' , ,
Mr.' GRAY knew the demands made upon
the pockets of honr members as well as
anyone, but felt ho had to sink his personal
feelings t>y his duty to the State. ' '
Mr. FENTON supported, the resolution,
as be believed overy district 'should be repre-
sented by a locaLman, and- there were manyi
eligiblo who were" on the bodorland of
afnuence and poverty, and could ,not affoid
to pay the, to some, paltry cost of attending
Parliament.
1 Mr. YOUNG opposed the resolution. He
regarded the proposal as gotting in the thin
end of the wedge, and said that the electors
of East Devon were against it. !
Mr. DAVIES also opposed the resolution,
as ho, considered that it would be only an en-
couragement i to professional .politicians.
From what he had learned while Tecently in
Victoria bo boliovod that the Reciprocity
Treaty with Tasmania would have passed
but'for tho dread, that members of the Vic-
torian Legislature had of a dissolution of
Parliament.' ' ' " ,
' Mr.' DOOLEY supported the resolution,
and pointed out that payment of members
was the rule in moat of tho colonies.
I The TREASURER thought it only fair to
state that even if this resolution was passed
it could not be dcatt with, as it would involve
not| only the introduction of, a now bill to
provide for the payment of,members, but also
an j amendment of the Constitution.Act
Hia own opinion was that payment of mem-
bers was unnecessary and that tho colony
could not afford it. ' '
Messrs. SUTTON and BIRD supported the
resolution. ?'
Colonel ST. HILL looked upon payment of
members as a natural corrollary of manhood
suffrage. The argument had boen uaod that
payment of members would encourage pro-
fessional politicians, but ho did not see why
politics should not be a profession.
Mr. FITZGERALD said that he had
movpd the resolution as a matter of principio,
andjheld that until payment of members was
granted, there could not be the fullest and
fairest representation of all classes that wo3
desirable. Objection bad been made, that
the resolution would encourage professional
politicians, but he pointed out that many
who were so styled had dono much good for
thecountries in which they lived. Ho claimed
that a majority of the public outside wero in
favour ot payment of members. Ho asked
the ¡committee to affirm tho principle that
lion.' members wera doing good woik for tho
country, for which somo consideration should
be paid.
Tho comniitteo divided on the resolution as
follows :- ' ', i ' ' ' ;
AYES, 8. -'Mo«srs. Hartnoll,, Fenton,
Dooley, Bird, St. Hill, Sutton, Fitzgerald,
Conway (teller).
NOBS, 11.-Messrs.' Dodds, N. J. Brown,
Burgess, Braddon, Davies, Lewis, Huston,
Barrett, Hart, Lucas, and Crisp (teller).
Question resolved in the negative, and the
resolution was accordingly lost, >
MESSAGES FROM THE LEGISLATIVE
1 COUNCIL.
Tho PitBsriER and'-Mr. HAKT brought
down a message from the Legislative Council
stating that the Council did not iiiBist on the
amendments madn in ,thn hills to rn-n."-»-?*-»
trie construction and execution of certain
public works, for tho erection and consti uc
tion of certain public buildings, and the ox
tension of telegraphic and telephonic com-
munication ; but insisted on its first amend-
ment on Supplementary Bill, 1881,1885, and
1886. The Council also agreed with an
amendment to the Maria Island Bill, and
requested the concurrence of the Assembly.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL Baid that
the amendment made on the Supplementary
Appropriation Bill was the striking out of
£lOU compensation voted to Mr. Taylor. Ho
moved that the amendment bo agreed with,
as there was no hopo of the other branch of
the Legislature agreeing to it.
Messrs. BRADDON and BIRD expressed
disappointment at tho decision of the Legis-
lative Couucit.
The amendment was then agreod to.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved that
the amendment on the Maria Island Bill,
which was simply a verbal one, bo agreed to.
The amendment was agreed to.
The PREMIER and Mr. GUUBB brought
down! a message from the Legislativo Coun-
cil, stating that that Chamber had passed
a bill to amend the 131st section of the
Mining Companies Act, 188!, and requested
the concurrence of the Assembly thereon,
also that tho Council had agreed without
amendment to a bill, entitled a bill to amend
tho Stamp Duties Act '
The Mining Companies Act was advanced
a stage, and tho second reading fixed for
Tuesday next. i
, MICHAEL ROACH'S CASE.
The Houso ' resumed comniitteo on this
ossa.
Mr. DOOLEY stated tho facts of tho case,
urging that the applicant had good grounds
for claiming compensation. , , i i , i
The MINISTER OF LANDS said that if ,
a good case could bo made out ho had no
doubt) but that tho Govoruor-in-Council
would; take it into consideration.
Mr.lDOOLEY said that ho would with-
draw his motion in theMtope that the hon.'
member would favourably consider tho casoV
' ACCOMMODATION. ," ',"/ ' .
Mr.'BRADDON asked if the Government
would affoid him an opportunity of propos-
ing the motion ho had on the notice paper in
regard to tho enlargement of the Oliambor,
and tho piùvision of additional committee
and waiting, rooms. , y '¡~; , , | , '
1 I ' ADJOURNMENT." ,',.1/
Mr. GRAY draw attention to tho state of
tho House, and a count-out ensued. ¡ ,/,
The' SPEAKER adjourned tho Houso at
II "¿i till i o'clock on Tuesday uoxt j , .¡.
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