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jjf-jr^ om.!.. - '?>? - -Jl Jl"'- - I
LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY, j j
THURSDAY;'OCTOBER ÛÔTIT. j I
Tho SPEARED toole tfio chair at thirty minutos p
three.""1-' *
LI BR RATION OF PRISONERS.'
... Mr. BUCHANAN asked tho Colonial Seorotarj
,' Whori the fallowing return, .moved, for and carried!
'session, will be laid on tho tabloof this Houso:- 1.1
number of prisonors, with their naines and offences, lib
...atcd.provious to.tho.axpiry.of thoir sentences -within i
last .twolvo months? 2. Tho number of applicatio
.. within: tho same period,. that havo^ been mada
, tho . Executive .. Government, praying, for i
r roloaso . of , prisoners, ¡ wi.h tho . . names ai
offences,, ofsaid prisoners? 3. Tho' grounds up
-which such'applications wero basedP dv Tho trai
..profession, or occupatibn, previous to conviction, of i
.prisonors so released during the last year ? i'G. T
number, of applications of this description refused 1
tho"'Governmont during tho samó, period? : 0. Tl
' names of tho prisonors, arid their offences,- whoso opp
< cations wore thus refused, .also tho trado or professa
followed by thoao prisoners previous to conviction? .
Tn.overy caso .of any prisoner being liberated boforo tl
^expiry of sentence, was such liberation' recommended I
.tho judgo who tried tho case.
. Mr. COWPER said tho return will, bo laid on-tl
table on Tuesday next.
PRISONERS COHEN, WATT, GANNON, AN
"WHITE. . ' 1 '?.
. Mr. BUCHANAN, asked tho. Colonial Secretory-:
Us ittruo that Solomon Cobon, convicted of perjury nt
-sentenced tb two yearu' imprisonment, ? has been'r<
tleased fromprisonr 2. How long has SoIomon'Cohei
'boon in gabi ? ', 3. What worotho reasons" which led j
r his releaso ? ¡' '4. Was tho juduo who tried the "casó i
favour of Solomon Cohen's. liberation ? . 5.- Is, it th
- intontion of tho Governmont to releaso tho Róv. Thomr
"Boyil Watt, convicted o£ perjury ,and sontonccd t
: five ,years' '.'Imprisonment,' three" years' bf whicl
'.lia has already suffered? 0. Is it truo that thc prisonc
Gannon, found guilty, of .personation at an clectioi
and sentenced to paya fine of £50. but imprisoned ,0;
.con-payment of said fine, has been released? .7. If sc
what were tho reasons which tod fd said releaso?!,'.£
Was' fho>;£50 fino intlictéd upon Gannon paid boforo Ti
was liboratod ? 9. Is it tho intention of tho. Go vera
i ment to liberato Edward White, found guilty of pot
eooation at an oloction dud sentenced to two years' har;
labour iii gaol, Bis mouths of which ho , has airead'
. suffered ? "
Mr. COWPER said in reply : 1. Toa. 2. Ono hal
-.of tup timo named in tho Ecntcnco. 3 and 4. Both Mi
Justico.Milford, who tried tho prisoner, and Mr. Justic
"-Wiso reported in favour of releasing tho prisoner. '. 5
I am uoablo to say what may bo his Excellency's dcci
sion, on any caso previously'to his considering it C,
Yeal 7. Ile was imprisoned for contempt of Court
.an"\ tho JudRO who imprisoned him thought that h
i had been sufficiently punished by sis months' impri
sohment. 8. No. 9. Tho answer to this question i
similar to that on question C.
TESTING RAILWAY IRON.
' Mr. EAGAR asked tho Secretary for Public Workä
Whötherany tost has boon applied to ascertain: th(
-tenacity of tho railway iron, imported from England
.for the construction of the pormanont way ; if so, ai
what timo or'timoi, and under whoso authority ?
' Mr. SMART said such a test had been applied undoi
.tho authority of Mr. Secretary Holroyd. .
INVESTMENT OF CHURCH AND SCHOOL
" ; FUNDS.
. Mr. MACPHERSON asked tho Minister acting fo:
the Colonial Treasurer -1. What amount of Church and
School land funds havo boon invested in Government
debentures ? 2. On what dato or dates were they sc
invested; and at what-ratc3, that is, ? abovo or below
T>ar? 3. What was tho market value of Government
. dobontures nt tho time or times of such investments?
Ho would add, without notico, if tho honorable
Minister wore prepared to answer, what was tho amount
of tho cash credit to this fund ? . '
Mr SMART said ho was riot prepared to answer
tho question as to tho amount of credit. As to tho
other questions-L.Tho amount invested was £11,001.
?2 On tho 12th October current, at i per cent. 3.
'. 00 per cent,
CLERK OF THE ASSEMBLY.
Tho SPEAKER said tho Clerk of tho Assomblyhad
been summoned to appear in tho Supremo Court and
?produce documents in tho case of Holt v. Scott. He
could not obey this summons without tho loavo of tho
House.
' Loavo was given.
RULES OF COURT.
Mr. COWPER laid on tho tabb Rulos of. Court,
.passed by tad Judges.' " * ?''-?: ?}'?'?
. Thoy were ordered tb bo printed.
.HAND REGULATIONS AND DEDICATIONS, &o.
.Mr; ARNOLD laid on tho tablo additional regula
-Hons for carrying into offect tho Crown Lands Aliena-
tion Act of 1801. Also, , a return of lands dedicated to
.religious and public purposes sinco tho dato of tho last
return.' ' Also, proclamations ' in reference. to Ianda in
the second class sottled districts. 1 . :
' Tho documents wore ordered to bc printed.
PETITION OF MR PHILLIPS.
J Mr. FOR LONGE presented a petition from Mr.
iPhillips. of Orango, praying of tho Houso favourablo
consideration for a new Industry, which ho had intro-
duced. ' i ,
? Tho petitiqn was received. !.. ;
, NOTICES OF MOTION.
Several notices-wore gi von, ' including oho hy Mr.
.PARKES, for a soled committco to inquire into and
report unon tho affairs of tho colony;-a question by
Mr. WALKER, as to whether it is the intontion of the
Government to introduce this session a bill to alter tho
«Crown Lands Alienation Act of 1801;-and notices hy
?Mr. COWPER; of billa' to amond tho Municipalities
Act, on Prison Discipline. Industrial Schools, tho Super
nmmüiinrV Äpf nnrl fhn Vnlnntrwfl. ? ? . i
PÉTITION OF MB. KENTISH.
¿Mr BUCHANAN presented a potltión from Mr. N
I* Kentish, complaining of ? his disnfissal from th*
public service, ana praying'for liberty to bo hoard at th
bar'of tho House-, ia support of tho "justice of hi
claims., ' '-?.! -.. , .
? Tho potition was received. ' '
1 TBEASUBY MINUTE OF 2XO FEBRURY.
.Mr. EAGAIl moved-"That thoro bo laid upon thi
tablo of thia^Houso, 'a'copy of 'tho Treasury minuti
.dálód 2nd February lost, and of .the sdvoral'documont!
mentioned1 therein,-sotting forth a general-view of thc
financial position and engagements of tho colony during
the year 18G5.'!! He would s'tato, tho ' roasonB for thc
motton. His: last official act bototo rottring from office
¡Ffjis 'to prepare an elaborate statement of ' tho flnnnoin]
position of-tho'colony; and of tho prospects for 1803,
Much difficulty lind . arisen from tho fuel
that, succeeding'"Treasurers' 'had received impotfoct
statements from their, predecessors 'ns to the aotual
erato of'tbo finance's. . TÍioTióhorable Minister opposite
(MK'Smart) had: received1 fronv his predecessor (Mr.
"WeeVes) nn account 'which wits-notas''it actually
.existed. ' - When ho''" (Mr. Engar) ontorbd'tbb Treasury)
tho state of tho finances was not'proporly represented to
him;- Now,' thqt ho felt it-was his duty;'on retiring from
.office, to prepare, ''from1,authentic figures, a representa
.tioniöf tho;'nctiial'stato 'of tho finances, Ho had itt«
tended to!movo that tho statement, ho drow up should
be printed fdr thogood of tho public.- - But this:was tho
first 'time lie had . boon iii a position'to do eo.: Ho
«would now do' so, believing that this- statement ' would
afford:tho-. Houso valuablo; iufoTuation,, and form a
valuable portion of tho records of the House., ' .,. ; 1 !'
'Mr.' >W\IiKBll Bcctmdod tho motton. ? . ; -,,, , j
/Mr. BUCHANAN said -it ..a'ppoarod ,by, what.diad
just booh said that tho Into Treasurer had boen mislod
byàfalso slatoinont.' Ho. would Uko ito'Jcnowf what
gunrnuteo : they bad itaat,.tho documont in question
wouldnot bo ' a tfalso Btatömont. . It was: humiliating
fiatthby could not .get'-.a ¡rolioblo' Btntomont ; fro'ui a
Treasurer.'.::It woiinost damning .to . tho, credit of tho
institutions of-tho. country..: Ho; thought this return
woulds worthless.-.! Thoy had' net tho slightest, hopo
of getting tho truth;: When piiople would uo \ so.bold
as to>. deceive ia '?? Treasurer; what)guarantee had ,tha
Houao.tliat thoy:wèuld not bo.decoivcd again .?., < . n'.
i Mr."PIDDING-TON: said tho Uonorabló mombor for.
JEa8t/'Macquarioi(Mr< Buchanan) had fallon.[into n:
.mismito. Itdld not: follow Jthdt any. Treasurer badi
rundo rm erroneous statement./'It-was ountomnry for. tho
gentleman who retired-to nama ona .friend,,nnd for tho:
gentleman who succeeded- him to; name another.; friend,
to oxamlno and report' on.tho .accounts for tho satisfao-;
tiou of: tho retiring: Treasurer audof his successor.. A
similar: > investigation had'boon madcy -8B > Btnlod
in> i tilo 1 HoraUV ?..i.'nowspapor; ..of. : to-day. -: (Mr.
BdcitaVAtf:.' t.f? False,'.') . :Tlioro:j was ' not an ii)-,
tontíonál «error.---- It'mightboian error:ot. dosoriplion..
There was In tho Sydnoy Morning Herald of to-day, a
similar Account' iio£> tbeJ.funds int . tho credit
efl! tho "Govorhmont. ) .'But . .tho > gentlomnn' -who
lind<:<beon suddenly 9, transformed from:. tho .. high
riosUlonI;o£ ..Twasuror/oi!'.tht> .colon?-into something!
(entirely - different-ho- did- not* say translated; bccaui
that,, implied being'mored to .somo-suporior ¡position
b'jt'ro'movid/ ' Tho usual, investigation,bad bwncmadi
;as. appeared ' bv tho newspapers; '.There 'was crédito
¡ tho'v sum-'of- £20.181 ? to - tho v Church ' "and Êchpc
.JPMil Tho: honorablo . gentleman v (Uris / Smart
justt .. now. , professed- -ignorance 4 ,as . to *. ta
amount ; of. r tho ; fund., , , Tho .,¡divino alflatu
'yrliich rested in him as Treasurer hod now ceased. Bu
ho (Mr. ' Piddington), bolioved -that-there'wai not oh
shilling bf; this' amount; available: in cash. - But tho;
wera informed that nearly £12,000 had!been :invest«
in dobbnturcs'. . Where; was ,tho <£8000_?, It vras¡ no
in debentures- it was hot in cash. ' Ho'^vould lilio 1IÏ1
honorable mcmbcr'to point out where this £S0O0 was
Ho had.spokon of it only in a shadowy.way as some
tiling to bo "drawn ,out ' of tho Government credit
Then thors wero. trust monoya put; down at £50,000
Was thero ono penny to moot that'amount? Not r
farthing. ' Tho'wliolo of that £50,000 had been pail
away, by .tho .Government 'in tho'salaries of theil
servants, rr He was glad those papers .wero moved for,
Thero was , an j overdraught of £'191,000. against thc
colony,; whereas on tho 3rd February - this yeal
thorb - was ' only 11 fSOl',000. So that from
February to ' October * there was an' inêrcaso in
thd jovordraught of £100,000.; This' was a pretty
state of.thing to, congratulate' tho country- upon.
Than again thero' was due to tho Now South Wales
Bank £33,023 8¿- 10d., and another cash over draft at
that bank amounting to, £93,395 2s. ld., so that the
bank had been drawn upon to tho extent of £127,000
in cash. Tho Oriental Bank had, as these papers
showed, advanced tho Government £206 in cash, and
tho-amount for dobontures in London,' and in coureo of
transmission, was stated to: bo £l,180,90O. Of this
tlioroj was -only £180;000' ovoilab'o. , Against this
onorradus account there was an overdrawn account of
£200,000, credit outstandiug amounting to £374,000
more. - In addition, .thero was a sum of £120,000 for
interest and pansions duo on tho first of July last, and
£300,000. 'for, dobontures duo da'. tho. first of January
next. .' Theso sums together ruado a total of £1,000,000
sterling, leaving a misorable credit of £180,000 in
dobontures And it must bo romemborad that thero was a
great amount of thoso hot sold. ' And if theso debentures
which had boon put. into the market in tho most
cautious,marmor had only realised 90, what was likely
to bo obtained for those that remained to bo sold, and
which would have tb bo 'sold at any price ? If tho
debentures could only when sold by driblots roaliso 90,
what sort of a prico' would tho great bulk of thom
fetch ? . Ho was glad that á motion for tho production
of, those returns had boen madq by. tho. honorablo
member (Ur. Eager). Ho trusted that honorablo
mombors would examino those.' statements and ascertain
for themselves tho position of the country.
Tho question wo3 thon put and passed.
. WEEKLY PROGRESSIVE BALANCÉS.
Mr. EAGAR, with tho permission of tho House,
doäircd to amend -his motion in somo.degree, as in its
prosout terms it hardly askod for all tho information
that ho thought should bo laid on. tho tablo of tho
House. Ho would move-" That there bo. laid on tho
tablo of this Houso a detailed statement showing; 1
Tho wookly progressivo balance of tho general account
of tho Governmont in the Bank of New South Wales,
commencing with tho balance on tho 2nd day of
January last past, and specifying in tho case of each
weekly balança tho amount included therein under tho
heads of Loans Fund, Scab in Shcop Fund, Church and
School Fund, and Lodgments. 2. The weekly pro-
gressivo balance on tho Suspense Fund of tho. Govern-
ment in tho Bank of New . South Wales. 3. Tho
weekly progressivo balance on tho Superannuation Fund
of tho Governmont in tho Bank of New South Wales."
Ho might state for tho information of tho House that
tho public account at tho Bank of Now South
Wales. :W03 kept tinder . three heads. ¡Tho^
Genoral Account, tho Suspenso Fund Account, and tho
Superannuation FundJ Account. Tho Gonornl Account
comprehended not' only thö revenue from day to day.
but also tho ravenuo under tho heads of Loan Fund,
Scab in Sheep Fund, Church and School Fund, and
a number of others, which wore all comprehended under
tho term "Lodgmen a'"-in other words, tho.General
Account in tho bank contained moro than the income of
tho colony.. His object in moving for theso returns
was to show that tho Government, having commenced
with au overdraft, had not reduced it at.all, but that
there had been a continual overdraft from tho first of
January up to tho present time. Ho wished tho Houso
to know that this ovordroft existed after absorbing all
thoso funds that wo know of under tho heads of Loan
Funds, Scab in Sheep Fund, Church and School /Fund,
and Lodgments. Ho found that an overdraft was
stated to bo ' a debtor balança of £13,210 ; and that
thora had boca absorbed by tho bank, under tho heads
of Loans Fund, Scab in Sheep Fund, icc., tho sum of
£210,031183. Od.,; tho state of tho caso being that tho
Government had incroarod tho overdraft to £258,201
18s, Od. He did not wish to' anticipate tho ? results
whioh would bo disclosed by these returns, :whon
they wore laid upon tho tablo bf tho Houso ;
but ho was sure that tho Houso would seo that at no
time,'from tho'period of their taking office up .to this
momont, had .tho Government been able to reduce tho
overdraft at tho bank. At no period, of .this year, in
spite of tho additional rovenuo derived from taxation,
had tho Government dori ved sufficient income, to cover
the overdraft in tho Governmont bank. Ho. did not
desire to draw any inferences from that damaging 6tato
of affairs.; but ho thought it would provo tho entire
inefficiency of tho taxation arrangements, upon tho
éuecoaà of which tho House) had been called , upon to
corigratulato Ibo Governmont.and tho country. However,
tho proper timo to discuss that question would bo when
tho Treasurer mado his financial statement, and then
tlio subject would, no doubt, bo well ventilated. As
tho'returns now asked for could bo prepared in a very;
short timo, and as all tho information required could bo
supplied by a doric in a day, he trustod. that tho
Colonial Treasurer would, at thc earliest possible dato,
placo both returns upon tho tablo. His object in ask-
ing'for thom was that tho Houso might ha vo sufficient
information upoa this subject, and that honorablo
mombors might havb satisfactory information, by
whioh: thoy could cbeoic tnoixreasurer's statement rela-
tive to this subject.
: Mr.. SMART said thoro could'he no objection to thc
production of tho return applied for. Ho might as well
inform tho Houso that tho Go vernment had boon unablo
to reduce.very much tho onormous balance that tho
gentleman'who had just sat down had loft behind him,
on quitting office. (Hoar, hear.) Thoro had been an
Overdraft of botweon eighty and ninety thousand pounds
whon tho presoat Governraont took .office. ? Tho Loans
Fund, Mho Scab, in .'Sheep Fund ..wera.gone;' and
the Church and Sohool Funds were appropriated for
othor.:purposes,. making a total overdraft of: between
£80,000 and £00,000. He (Mr. Smart) had not boen
able! to reduce tho balauco so much as ho.desired, but
still it was being gradually, roducod. Ho had not boon
ohio;to..reducá;it bolow about £40,000, but he thought
the returns, would show that tho measures; adopted by
tho Government had; boon otgood effect, and would con
tiuuo to reducá tho overdraft gradually..
' : Mi.' PIDDINGTON, said that' tho Govornmont
claimed credit for ¡laving, tried overy artifice that they
could -i .uso to ; reduco tho overdraft. : Parliament last
seasion had! voted a. sum of £30,000 for tho improve-
ment of tho minor roads of tho colony, and scarcely a
shilling of tho .money,, hud boen expended for that pur
pose.. "Was . that a specimen of tho honorablo gentle-
man's . economical artifices ?.: This money had not boon
appropriated to r tho .use for which ''Parliament
intended it, and thus tho Govornra6nthad:noglootodono
of ' tho most vital ? interests. of ? tho colony.
But ho must protest against: such inventions for
economising tho public money,. They all acknowlodgod
tho honorablo. gantloninh's fiuancinl ability ; but'tboy
did not think - ho : should-diotato . to :Parliamont what
: should bo done with, tho public money..'i Tho honorablo
:gontloman had boon, much to blame ¡a not distributing
tho money for tho. all important question of tho;minor
roads of tho colorir. . ¡;J ' '.? ^ ... 'ci :
. i Mr. SMART: I hadnothing to'do with it. a vi
; ' Mr: PIDDINGTON :-But thoy. all : knew that tho
lionorab'o gentleman was ona of .tub.bureaucratic chain
of ; despotism, Tthat, now governed the : colon vi Ho
thought tho.honorablo gontloman.had moro to uo with
; finding . tho - nionoy! for.-, tho pulposo,-, thin any other
'Ministdrdn tho-country. ~ ''? i:: > .-./ r : '!?: :' :J 'i i i
I Mr.i MACPHERSON thought that tho money votod
for. minoi roads .Was noariy £70,000, and. not I £85,000;
And ho know.ofa .considerable .inunibor- .of: .instancos
whoro tho money had boen granted, and of a considera»
bio number also whoro .thO.imonQy.had not boon grantod.
Ho did not knowpn what ralo, the .'Government acted;'.
If no'othor honorablomcmbor-thought proper to db so,'
ho would, inn very abort timo/'call for roturn's of all
mouoyi out of tho: £70,000 ¡expended; and' bf all
Votes included.in tho nmotint that'had not boon ex-
pended. So longos tho fino weather lasted perhaps i peo
plo in tho .country would monago, to ¡do. without It,
but if thoy had nay bad wcathor tho whole of-'< tho'
publie highways would bo entirely , stopped. ,
\ Mr. BUCHANAN had.waited to soo if any mombor
of tho Government would reply to tho statements made
dgnlnat thora. But tho Govornmont . ecomod oitlior to
. (jonfoss thcuisolvca unablo to iuoct tho'so etatoineiits Or
intcndcd'to'treat tho Houso with-undesorvcdcontorapt{
lie thought it waa a very, "serious; charge; 'against, tho
lalo Treasurer.that wheu a largo.sum pf mbneyjhad
boori voted for tho esaeulial purpbsq óf improving" tho
roads of tho country thnt-'monoy had 'hot peon! appro-
priated. , Ho, might say ho had received letters- from
many of his constituents saying that tho morney voted
had not been expended om roads, and ho endeavoured
to ascertain why, but had boori shut up ¡ti tho'samo
mariner ns was Mr. Piddington. '' ' That sort of thing
I oupht not to bo tolerated; - They found tho Government
riddled; [they had ,not.,a log to stand upon.
! Thoy put. . falsehoods injo i tho. , Governor's
mouth ; and ,, nowj wore .'quito. . unablo
to reply to tho charges raado^ against thora. Tho very
soul ot, tho administration had loft it ; Mr. Pobbrtson
.was gone, nnd thero was. now nothing but a putrid, rotten
carcase loft, whoso pestiferous stouch was intolerable.
Ho lind no doubt that tho earliest full House, would
hot allow. tho Ministry an' hour's existonccv . Ho do
;n'ounced in strong-langiiage'thiok arid thin supporters
pf a Ministry, and-trustod that' honorablo-mcmbersihad
.somorespect for.tbomsolves, . ¡ . -¡
.Thero hoing no reply, tho SPEAKER put tho
motion,'which was agrcod'to. :
' On tho motion of Mr. OOyVPER, tho Houso then
adjourned at twonty-five minutes past four o'clock, till
throo o'clock tho following day. (Friday).
$