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P AR LIAMENT.
LEGISLATIVE, ASSEMBLY.
, - Wednesday. 23rd August.
The Speaker took tbe chair at half -past four
o'clock. -
. -YAH TEAK PIPE CONTRACT.
Mr. BAYLES called tho attention of the Go-
TeruniCDt to . the terms of tho contract for tho
Van Yean main pipe, which would hare tho
effect of preventing colonial manufactures corn
petmc, as it rcqmreu tuat one-nan me quantity
called for should bo placed upon the ground bo
foro any payments were made. It was suggested
that tho usual course should be pursued, namely,
the payment of 90 per cout. for the work as
completed.
Sir. JONES thought that there could be no
objection to an arrangement by which colonial
manuiaciurers snouia do paia pro rata » tuo
pipes were delivered. '
Mr. SERVICE asked -whether these terms
would . be extended to contractors other than
colonial manufacturers.
Mr. JONES replied that there was no neces-
sity for that. Tho object was to expedite the
romplotion ot the work ; and if the pipes had to
ho imported, much delay might arise unless tbe
terms were somewhat stringent.
new me5iher.
Mr. GRANT moved that as the Speaker bad
received a telegram, duly verified, from the re
turning officer of North Gippsland, announcing
the election of Sir Charles Gavan 'Duffy; tho new
member he allowed to take his seat. The motion
was agreed to. '
Sir Charles Gavan Duffy was then introduced
by Mr. Grant, and Mr. Duffy, and having sub
scribed, tbe usual ostb, took bis seat in the Op
position corner.
stevesscins invoices.
Sir .TAMES M'CDLLOCU, in reply to Mr. A. T.
Clark, snid that lie was not in a position to say
that the Government would retain the invoices of
the firm of Messrs. Stevenson and Sons now iu
their possession.. The question was at present
nnder the consideration of the Customs autho
rities.
railway extension.
Mr. JONES, in reply to Mr. Godfrey, intimated
that tlie Government could not introduce their
!n)l dealing with railway extension until such
time as the negotiations for the purchase of the
Melbourne and HobsonVBay Railway had been
coidpletaJ.
harbor trust bill.
A message was received from his Excellency tho
Governor, recommending an appropriation of a
sum of money for the purposes of the Harbor
Trust Bill, 'i'he motion was agreed to, and the
message ordered to ho taken into consideration
on Tuesday next.
l'avment of members repeal dill.
The debate upon the secoud reading of this hill
was resumed.
Mr. LONGMORE contended that a democratic
Government could not be carried ou without the
payment of members. Witbont it the industrial
clasee- could not be fairly represented, and it was
no argument against the system that legislation
in referenco to certain bills had not been expe
dited, since its introduction. Tbe measures
enumerated would not havo been advanced a
stage further if thero had been no payment of
members. Ho would therefore vote agaiust re
pealing the hill. .
Mr. Connor and Mr. Lf.vien having briefly
nddrssseii the -House, a division was called for,
which resulted as follows : —
Aves 24
Noes 29
Majority, ngainst 5
Mr.' Casey's -bill for abolishing payment of
mem beiu 'was therefore lost.
The fallowing is the division list . —
AYES.— -24,
Mr. Buries Mr. Hsnna Mr. Mscpberson
Bent Hunt Madden
. Bnslstn Inulis Sir J. M'Citlloch
('.T'lirrfin iii-runt Mr. Mnnrn
'.Cjspv. , Latij-tou Pnrvefl
(Vq»plri ' i.ovjcn RstttiBAjr
'revvs Alficltain Service
Fnwi.S MacDdrroott Yonnu.
G0df»#-y
NOES.— 29.
Mr. Clnrk, A. T. Mr. Grumson Mr. Mason
Clit ke. >7 Oillius MH;<?llon
'Grant Mlraros
Oivic?. t .Tame Patterson
. Dixon Johnstons Richardson
Diiffw .limn Smith, G. V.
Sir CJ. O Uiilfy Kerferd Srairh, W. O,
Mr. Kartell Klnij Stewart
Kinchnm ' Lock Woods.
Frn«er, W, Longmore
colonial attorwevs' relief bill.
Mr. TJRNT, in moving fclio secoud readiug of
till# hill, sniff if. van really a reciprocity bill. It
merely provided that, the same privileges should
he conferred'on colonial attorneys as on English
nitorneyn. ; Gentlemen coming from other colo
nies had to Vosido here twelve months, and pass
other examination.? than those they had already
pa??ed; while an Knqlish attorney Imd only to
mnko application to the Supreme Court, atid pro-
dure his papers, in order to he admitted. The
illlherality of onr laws produced » tendency in
the other colonies to raise up obstacles to Vic
torian ' nUornrvs practising in their courts,
though nt present, thoy admitted Victorian at-
tornpys without- raising any obstacles.
Mr. GAUNSON seconded and supported the
second rending ot tho hill.
Mr, RAMSAY opposed the second rending, and
snid it.j7as.me.roJy an attempt to evade the high
eduizaUmnit stqhuaHl insisted uu in mis epiony.
Ilti Mid the profession hero entirely disavowed
sympathy with the attempt of tho bou. member
for Brighton.
Mr. BENT said he had heen requested to move
in the matter by a leading solicitor in town.
Mr. PUllVES thought, tbe want of reciprocity
in this oniony was a barrier that should bo re
mitted to the. hrulio of ill-considered obstacles
thrown in tho way of reciprocity in former
times, iio thought tho bill did not go far
enough. It should apply to barristers as well as
to attorneys Legal gentlemen in other colonies
made it a complaint against this colony that
there was a most illiberal want of reciprocity
maintained here hy the strict rulos of court en-
forced.
'Mr, DUFFY opposed the second reading on'
tho ground that the educatiounl standard main
tained in tbo other colonies was not nearly so
high as. thnt demanded here.
Dr- MADDEN opposed the second reading on
the same ground,
Mr. CASF.Y said he felt disposed to vote for
the second rending of the bill, for it was a blot
on this colony that we did not grant the same
facilities to attorneys nf other colooies as thoy
conceded to Victorian attorneys. As for tho
standard of education, ho thought tbey should
leave that question to tbe Supremo Courts of tho
other colonies, aud if those tribunals were satis
fied he thought the courts of this colony should
be sat isfied also.
.Mr. KERFERDsnid that ho was in favor of
tho principle embodied in t.he, measure, and
would therefore vote for it. He believed that
from a Victorian point of view "it was desirablo
that they should draw closer to the various colo
nic? in this matter, and that tbo affirmation con-
tinned in the bill was one of tho first import
ance.
Mr. MACDERMOTT contended that if tho bill
were passed it would practically have the effect
of lowering the standard of tbe bar io Victoria.
Nothing could be easier, for instance, than for a
youug gentleman who desired to become an at
torney here to go to, say, to Western Australia,
where the educationnl standard was much lower,
aud thus overleapiug all difficulties, return to this
colony a full-Hedged attorney. It would he very
unfoir to the solicitor? of Victoria, who had sue
cassfully passed crucial examinations, And ex-
ponded largo sums of money in qualifying them-
selves for their profession, to ho placed in such
competition. (A Voice : I thought you were a
froo-trader.) Yes, ami so be was : but lie could
not sea what bearing that had upon the ques
tion before them. Ho used tho term competition
in the souse that it would ho most unfair to allow
ignorant men to assume the position of attorneys,
they should, at all events, be required to matri
culate. He considered the bill altogether un
necessary ; it had not been asked by either the
attorneys of Riverina or South Australia, and he
would certainly oppose it.
The question was then put, and a division
having been taken, the second reading was carried
by a majority of tbirty-one to twenty-tbree. -
Mr. BENT informed the House that it was his
intention to give notice that tbe bill should be
referred to a select committee to deal with.
cxoprosEn MOTIONS.
vii vuc uiuiiivu ui jfii. n, a. viiAKK, iii was
agreed that tbcre be laid ou tbe table of tbe
House copies of all papers and correspondence in
relation to tbe reservation and recent sale of-cer-
tain allotments of land in tbe district at Williams
town, formerly temporarily resorved for quarry
ing purposes. Also, nn tho motion nf Mr. Lev I EN,
it was agreed tbat the correspondence regarding
tbe application for opening a road from tbe. east
- bank of tlie Worribee to Ballan be laid upon tbe
table of tbe House.
local government -act.
Mr. KERFERD moved for leave to introduce
a bill to ntnond tbe Local Government Act 1874.
Mr. CREWS said tbat bethought the Attorney-
Genoral should inform the House whether it was
intended hy the Government to continue tbe toll
system or not. When tho matter was last before
tbe House the Government promised that they
would bring downsuch a measure as would com
pensate tbe local bodies for tbe loss of tho tolls,
and now, nfter several delays, it bad been left
to the last moment. He would not reiterate any
arguments to show tbe necessity for abolishing
tolls altogether ; but he would simply say tbat
he had heard with much satisfaction of the in
tention of tbo Government to propose a tire tax.
Tbo introduction of such a measure, he belioved,
would save tbe colony over £100,000 per annum.
As a matter of fact, there bad been a great re
duction in the cost of road maintenance since the
broad tires bad been in vogue. He deprecated
the indiscriminate endowment to local bodies
which tbe Government made; there was much
waste iu the endowing of numerous shires which
had no need for it whatever. They should first bo
made to assist themselves, and then, if necessary,
be helped by.an endowment from the Govern
ment. He hoped tbat the House would not
stultify itself in this matter, but get from the
Government some tangible scheme whereby tho
tolls could be entirely abolished. Tbey were, he
maintained, obnoxious, inexpedient nnd expen-'
sire, nnd ought not upon any account to be con
tinued.
After some remarks from - Messrs. Mason,
Cameron, Levien, Witt and Burrowes,
Mr. KERFERD said that considerable diver
sity of opinion existed with regard to the ques
tion of tbe continuance of tolls. Some non.
members thought tbat tbe £66,000 raised by
tolls should come out of tbe general revenue, but
the general revenue had' been ro freely bled
already tbat nothing was to be expected further
from tbat quarter. Even supposing it were
possible- to take tho £66,000 from tho general
revenue to compensate those districts in which
tolls had been . abolished, would the other
districts iu which tolls bad beon pre
viously abandoned stand quietly by aud
allow such an arrangement ? Notwithstanding
what had been stated by members of tbo con
ference, ho believed that tbo Gouso would
always bo guided in dealing with a difficulty
as it thought best for tho welfare of
the country. 'The difficulty was to find a suit
able equivalent for tolls. To cito an instanco :
The Snapper Point coach contributed £90 a
year- in tolls. What tax could be imposed tbat
would satisfactorily get tbat amount from the
same coach for the use of tbe road. A carriage
tax should be made to apply all over tbo country,
and was not likely to "bo favorably regarded.
There were instances in which local bodies bad
entered into obligations tbat rendered the
mainfenanco of tolls an absolute neces
sity. Tbe only solution of the difficulty, was to
leave to the local bodies the question of abolishing
tolls or otherwise. The duty of so deciding
naturally rested with thero, as it was nothing
more., than carrying out the principle of self-
government. He did uot agreo with those who
thought that tbe places whero tolls were to be
continued should be scheduled, as tho House
could not he a judge of the circumstances
which affected the various districts and rendered
tolls necessary.
/The motion was carried without a division-
tbo bill bronght in, ordered to ho printed, ami
tbe first reading fixed for.Tuesday next.
education law amenmiknt bill.
The Houso went into committee to further con
sider this bill.
Mr. MIRAMS moved anew clause to tho'effect
that no person should be allowed to conduct a
private school unless be or she bad first passed
au educational examination. Hi- contended tbat
if it was necessary that persons engaged in the
State schools should bo so qualified for their
work, it was even more necessary that persons con
ducting private schools sbonld be qualified for
tho work thoy undertook. This could only ho
determined by tost, as in the Stale schools. It
might lie argued that such a com-
fulsory system of cxatninatiou would in-
erfere with tbo liberty of tho subject.
That was a mode of discussion always adopted
by people who wcro driven into a corner, and bad
no otuer argument to tall back upon. XUero
were, according to tbe statistics of tho depart
ment, 23,000 children iu private schools. This
fact urocle it necessary that competent persons
should be engaged in the work.
Mr. PGRVEs ridiculed tho clause, on account
of its defective construction.
Mr. RAMSAY hoped the hon. member would
Withdraw the clause, as it was preuintnrc. Tho
State had already interfered with private
teachers to a very large extent, and to proceed to
so extreme a step as was proposed by tho now
clause would he finish and oppressive.
Mr. MIRAMS then withdrew the clause.
Mr. RICHARDSON proposed the following
new clauso "A. In this and tho principal act
the following exception shall ho added to the
third sub-section of tho thirteenth section of the
principal act, excepting when the child is over
uine years, then the distance shall ho within two
miles and a half ; nnd when the child is over
twelve yeais the distance shall bo within three
miles."
Tbe clause, was read a first and second time,
and agreed to.
Mr. RICHARDSON further moved : — " B. In
this and the principal act the. term ' standard of
education' shall, in addition to the subjects in
cluded in section three of the principal act, moan
atid include.' elementary algebra aud mensura
tion."'
' Mr. RAMSAY requested tho hon. member
(Mr. Richnrdsnn) to withdraw this clause, ns its
adoption at tho present time would ho inexpe
dient, especially as applied to the country dis-
tricts.
Air. RICHARDSON withdrew the clause, ex
pressing n hope tbat the Minister would bear tbo
object liu had ic view in mind, so tbat it might
be carried out wliou tho school machinery of the
colony was inn more perfect state.
Tlie hill was then reported with amendments.
, SUPPLY.
Tbe House wept into Committee of Supply, and
proceeded with the consideration of tho esti
mates.
Tlie following ilems wore agreed lo in addition
to sums already voted : — Industrial and reforma
tory schools, £39,954 77s. fid. : observatory, £2906
73s. (id.; Govorument botanist, £7310; short
hand reporters, £S17 ; Victorian liansnrd,
£1290 : Agent-Goneral, £2162,
After some discussion upon this last item.
Mr. LALOR moved thnt progress bo reported.
A division having been called for, tho result
was, two (Messrs. Lalor and Gaunsou) for, fifty-
one ngainst.
Mr. WITT asked whatfsteps had been taken
by the Agent-General to disseminate a knowlcdgo
of the colony in Englnnd.
Sir JAMES M'CflLLOCH stated that he had
forwarded to tho Agont-Genoral for distribution
in England, a number ot copies of Mr. Haytor's
hook, and also of tho pamphlol writtou by the
Rev. Mr. Ballantyne.
After further debnto, the item was agreed to.
The following sums were also pnssed Audit
office, £5630 6s. llkl.; scab prevention, £750.
On, tlio item £6000 fnr ohnrioi— « —
posed,
Mr. CAMERON moved tbat progress bo re
ported.
Progress was thon reported, and leavo given
to sit again.
Tlio House adjourned nt fivo minutes past
eleven till half-past four next day.
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