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THE PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY. Thursday. December 20.

The Speaker took tlio Chair at a quarter to 2 'cluck. PETITION. Mr. MARTIN Dresented a netition. sitmed by 45

inhabitants of the District of Mount Crawford, praying for the construction of a rail way or tram way from Gawler to Mannuin, to connect Adelaide with the Murray. Keceiveil and read. PAULIAMENTARY PAPERS. Tlie TREASURER (Hon. W. Duffield) laid on the table a statement of the proposed appropria tion of £-20,000 voted for the Local Board of Main Road3 for the South-Eastern District. The Hon. T. REYi\OLD3 hoped the Govern ment would also lay on the table the estimates of appropriation connected with the drainage of the iiouth-iuist. The CHIEF SECRETARY (Hon. A. Blyth) laid on the table a cony of a letter received from ^tUe Chief Secretary of Victoria, in reply to a com ~n'tuu'C-ilion addressed to him in accordance with the resolution of the hnii member for East Adelaide (the Hon. T. Reynolds). Ordered to be printed. FENCING BILL. This Bill was read a first lime. The second reading was made an Order for January 2. AUDITING THE PUBLIC ACCOUNTS. The CHIFF SECKETAKV. (Hon. A. Blyth). in answer to the Hon. T. Reynolds, stated that he hud again applied to the Government Printer for the new regulations for auditing the public accounts, and hoped to be able to lay a copy on the table the next day. INSPKUi'lON OF RACEHORSES. Mr. COGl IN asked the Commissioner of Crown Lands and Immigration 'by whose authority has the Government Veterinary Surgeon (Mr. ChaUin) claimed three pounds for inspecting the racehorses imported in the Orient, he being paid for his services by the Government.' The COMMISSIONER of OKOWN LANDS (Hon. W. Milne) replied as follows:— 'Mr. Cnalwin was appointed by proclamation, dated 22nd February, lStto', under the Customs Act of 1SH, to inspect imported stock, which are not per mitted to land without a certificate of their freedom from disease. He receives no salary, hut is paid by fees from the importers for his time, labour, and travelling expenses.' ANNUAL LtsSLEs. Mr N. BLYNI asked the Chief Secretary 'whether the Government will have any objec tion to lay on the table «f the House copies of the correspondence and legal opinions arising out of the cases of intrusion against certain annual lessees commenced in the Supreme Court some tilThelCUrEP SECRETARY (Hon. A. Blyth) read the following reply:-' The Government will lay oi he table such of the correspondence and opinions referred to as can b^produced without detriment to the public service. ?

BLUE-BOOK DOCUMhKTS. The CHIKtf SECRETARY (Hon. A. Blyth) 111 'Thai it be nn order of this House that all miiera and other documents ordered by the House durum this session, if not prepared by the resi;oi» Mb!e .Minister from whom they nviy be required prior to the prorogation, be completed as soon after such prorogation su may be, and forwarded to the Speaker in print; and that it be an instruc tion to the Cleik of the House to cause such papers and other documents to be hound with the Votes und Proceeding, in the s.uue manner as if the same hail licen laid on the table during the session of the House.' CT/istlTUTE PERSONS I.ELIEF BILL. . The amendments of the Legislative Council in this Bill were considered in Committee and agreed to the CHIEF SECRETARY (Hon. A. Blyth) having pointed out that they were with one excep tion merely verbal, or otherwise of a trifling character, and that the exception related to a matter upon which the House was nearly equally divided in opinion. MLNERAL RENT BILL. Read a third time and passed. TORT WAKEFJELD TRAMWAY BILL. Head a third time and pa*sed. MAIN ROADS LOAN BILL.

Read a third time and passed. The CHIEF SECRETARY (Hon. A. Blyth), in answer to the Hon. T. Reynolds, was under stood to say that the amount which would be raised and expended next year under the authority of the Bill was that which would be required to enable the Central Road Board to carry out the works included in their estimates of expenditure. POUT ADELAIDE WATERWORKS ACT AMkNUMENT BILL. The CHIEF SECRETARY (Hon. A. Blyth) moved for leave to introduce a Bill intituled 'An Act to amend the Port Adelaide Waterworks Act.' The 44th clause of the Act of 18-3 pro vided that the Commissioner should, at least three calendar months before he commenced to supply the Town of fort Adelaide with water, make and briiii? into force an assessment of all lands within the Town of Port Adelaide. 'I he Government was leady to supply the water, but by an oversight on the part of some one or other the provisions of the clause had not been complied with, and it was to remedy that defect that he asked leave to intro duce this measure. The motion was carried, and the Bui was accordingly introduced and iead a first time. Ihe second reading was maiie an Order for the fol l0vvi'K ^RAILWAY EXTENSION. Mr. N. BLYTH. as Chairman of the Select Com ni.ttee on Railway Extension, asked for a further extension of time till January 2 for bringing up the report: and ftased, in reply to a remark by the Hon. Chief Secketaut. that the Committee hoped to bring up i he final leport on that day. Leave granted. MINERAL REGULATIONS. Mr. NEAU5S applied for and obtained leave for the Select Committee on iMineral Regulations to bring up a progress report January 2. POLICE FORCE. The CHIEF SECRETARY (Hon. A. Byth) obtained an extension of time to January 2 for the Select Committee on the Police Force to bring

UP 'gflffiaiUN OX PASTORAL RUNS. Adjourned debate on the following motion of Mr Glyde, interrupted on the previous day by the Orders of the Day being called on :— . . '1 'lhat in the opinion of this House it is desirable that ft Commission should be appointed -consisting of three nonuttieial members of the House of Assembly, and two nun-official members of the Legislative Council-to enquire into the state i-f the runs which have been and still are sutterine from the drought, and to report thereon to Parliament immediately upon its reassembling. '?' That, in the meantime, the Government should postpone the payment of rents upon a 1 runs which .may be deemed to be &flecled by such 0IMr T'hTOW had not much to say in addition to his remarks. When the debate was interrupted he was about to ask if the motion would cover such cases as those contained in Paper No. 1M. He believed it would; and there could be no doubt but that large nnmbere of the lessees were unable to pay their rents, and that at the present time it was very difficult to raise money on squatting property. He was very glad to hnd the principle generally admitted that where there h as no grass there should l-e no demand for rent, and he hupimsed it would also be admitted that where there was but little gra?s there should Ih; but little rent ' He lud no doubt but that the Commission would bring alwiit a very satisfactory result. The Hon. T. REYNOLDS did no; think they were bound to adopt the opinion that the amount of rent should be regulated by the quantity of the grass. Sometimes there would be a great deal, and at other times very little. He knew the country in the Far North, and had seen it covered with grass three or four feet high.. He did not Itelicve that the drought would continue for tome years longer, ss some supposed; and. at any rate, it thejirinciple were to lie admitted of regulating the rent by the quantity of grass it would have to be varied everj year. The motion before, the House was tabled in consequence of a petition from the Chamber of Commerce, and it had been assumed that that body was the most d.sinterested possible; whereas, when the Chamber of.Com ineice petitioned the House for a change in the tariff it was discovered that their opinions were not worth listening to.. But now when it was a question nffectine the intcres s .f the tenants of the Crown, they were tol.l, 'Oh. you must pay some attention to these gentlemen: they are so disinterested, and so influential, and all that sort ';.!.:„„ -? {(is nwn oDinion. however, was that

the members of the Chamber of. Commerce were with but few exceptions deeply interested either directly or indirectly, in squatting pursuits, and therefore he would take their petitwn for just what it was worth-(Hear)-and no more, lie was aWeTto present the petition of the Chamber of Commerce, and he said he would not object to do so but ak to supporting it that was another matter. (Hear, hear.) In 1865. a Commission was appointed to examine and enquire into the state of the Northern runs. Two of the members o Par liament were appointed, and it was supposed that . the resuUof their enquiries would be satis actory to all patties: but. somehow or other, the squatters got Viofd of a member of the Opposition, .and persuaded him that something else was required. Then in consequenca of the action taken by Cant John Hart and Mr. Towijsend the Ministry were ousted, and a squatting Ministry took their riuea i Htohon. friend the memrer for Yatala ?Mr Glyde) had previously kicked over .the traces, than compromise his pnncip ,»f- However, the squatters were not satisfied with the report ofthe Commission, and so Mr. Goyder-the very man ' whose valuations had been regarded as bo very exccfsive, and whose decisions were looked upon as a blight upon the prospects of the lessees-this Gentleman of all others must be sent out again. Wat for? To define the rainfall. And this he effected with wonderful nicety by dividing the whole country into four classes, but which were afterwards reduced to three. Andthrn the Go vernment introduced a BiUtomeet the wishes of the squatters. (Shame.) Yes. it was a shame, and vet he gathered from the speech of the hon. mem ber for Flinders (Mr. Stow), who now cried 'Shame.'? that he intended to support the motion f nr the aDnointrriant of a Commission. A motion for he aS tment of a Select Committee intro duced tot s^on was. lost; but then the Govern ment hrought in their alternative Bill, giving to Uie lessees the choice of a remission of rent or an extension of ^ lease. And now came the question If to whether those gentlemen who were applying for fuSSr enSiry had not already availed 1 them selves of the provisions of the Act of im- by aonlving for ari extension of lease, and if so, he S say to them. ' Gentlemen, if you have made am stake we will amend the Act. and allow you a ment of a Commission, he did not know- who or what runs would be affected by it* and he declined tn Tok in the dark; But supposing they were to appoint a Commission, what pood would result Sr* 'A. .pi ? „.„..., tn »annrt°ishf-ii the Parliament

met a^ain and the Vaj-ment of rent wa? to be us randed In the -meantime; consequently the Gor TCinment would be unable to collect any rent for the next 12 months. Then, again, who was to de ; cide what runs were to be.includei m the : enquiry f Would it be the Commissioners themselves? rhe bon mover had proposed that there should be three Sere of that House on the Commission, rnd lie specially named the hon. member Mr. N. Hvth and his own colleague, the hon. member ?^b» -wsftttsst was SS oi SS Oonuntaion oi which he was a

member was set aside. It might happen now, however, that if he were again to visit the Northern runs he would report that they were in a mag nificent condition; for if there was any truiii in the telegrams and the accounts of the maildrivers, there was now plenty of .wild oats growing where not long ago the country was quite denuded of grass. And if this was the \ case thev had a rieht to claim more rent th*n last ,

rear rather than less. (Mr. Coglin- 'Ho. ) i He did not know whether the hon. member for Light had lately been circumnavigating that portion ot j the country or not, though he believed that once in his life that hon. member did pay a visit to Mount Craig. But now, if they looked down toe list of the names of those gentlemen who were Herbert Hughes, and others of that stamp had been impoverished by their connection with squatting! And, admitting that there had been meat losses, would any one tell him that he SdteU there was any likelihood of the drought continuing for some years longer? He dd not believe it. And he did not believe that the lessees would have held their runs for m) many years as they had done if their connection with squalling had not been generally remunerative, but they were asked to allow the lessees to withhold pay ment of the £fi5,C00 due from them for rent. It appeared to him that all these wealthy men were unreasonable in their demands, and he was not prepared to cjraply with their request. He was not disposed to swoar by Goyder'B valuations, but if any one could show that he had been made to suffer unj'ustly. there from he would be disposed to reconsider his case. An error might have been committed on either the one side or the other, and if in any case there had been oppression, th?re should be also redress ; but then this was a matter for the Govern ment to consider, and there ought not to be an attempt made to shift the responsibility upon others. The Government had appointed too many Commissions already-such as the llailway oom mission. the Heal Property Act Commission, and the Harbour Commission, and. aft r all, what haa became of them? What good had, they done! Their labours did not all end in smoise, for there was no fire to produce it, and they only served, as the safety-valves of the Government, by shming their responsibility upon somebody else. I he Government was a squatting Government, ami should take upon themselves the responsibility which, he was soiry to say, the hon. member for Yatala wished to remove from them. . Mr. BBIGHT regretted that a motion of tin? kind had not been introduced earlier in the session, for the reason that it might not now meet with such seiious attention as the justice of the case demanded. He should adopt the same course on this occasion as he hail d -ne last session, and vole for the enquiry, and he believed it would be now seen that those who had gone for that enquiry last session were as anxious a* the Government to do j'ustice to the squatters. Justice had not been done by the Bilk of last session, ami the petition of the Chamber of Commerce showed that such was the fact. The squatters were not afraid of their casfi heine investigated, and he was sure if

that step had been taken before that the squatters would have obtained far better terras than they had last session. The relief had been afforded indiscriminately, and the result had been that many of their smaller squatters had appeared in the Insolvency Court -a result which miyht have been avoided if a Select Committee or a Commission had sat last session. (No.). That was his opinion. The duties of a Commission such as this now proposed would be very arduous if they were eHicien'ly carried out, and it was no use passing the motion unless the duties were to be elricicntly and thoroughly per formed. Evidence should be taken on both sides of the question, and he was sure that the hon. mover, if appointed upon the Commission, would see that other testimony than that of the squatters would be received. He could not fully fall in with the proposition of the hon. member Mr. Glyde as to the gentlemen to be appointed on the Commis sion. It wouid be invidious to speak against the gentlemen named, but he l«lievea the fnirest way would be to have three members of the House elected by ballot, (Hear, hear.) There was a desire on the part of the House that justice should be done to the squatters as well as to any other class, and he was Mire that the agriculturists as a body had not the slightest wish to oppress the pastoral tenants, or withhold full justice from them. He believed if anything could prove to the linn mpiiiimr for Kiii-t Adelaide that the cast^ra!

:ountry was not in the same condition as it was before the drought, it was the fact that runs had been sold within the last month or two at very much less than they did 18 months or two years ago. He believed that fact was an indication of the depreciated value of the runs ; and although the drought was low passed- (No aid Hear)— he should not like to see a large quantity of pastoral countiy thrown into the hands of the Government, seeing that if they were submitted to auction they would probably not realize the value placed upon them by Mr. Goydir. He lielieved that the experience which Air. Goyder had gained in respeit of these runs would net be lost upon him, and that he would not in the future fix so high a rent as he had done in the past. Although he was anxious ib.it the Government should receive a fair rental, he did not wish it to be bo large in amount that the squatters could not pay it. Mr. PEACOCK supported the motion, as it was in accordance with the view he had strongly advo cated last session. He was surprised at the action taken by the hon. member Mr. Reynolds, and he believed lhat he had not upheld the high character which he had borne throughout his political career. He (Mr. Peacock) had on the 13th January. 1SW5. moved that the Waste Lands Bill then before the House be referred to a Select t.wn mittee, his object being to obtain equal justice for all the sqnatteis: and he had expected that the lion. Mr. Reynolds would have supported it, but he found on reference that he must have walked out of the House when the division came on. It had been alleged against him that he was a strong anti-squatter, and some of his pastoral friends had characterized him as a man ready to crush their class, and to proceed to any length to injure them. His opinion was that a fair rent should be got from the lessees of Ihe Crown for the lands they occupied ; but it could not possibly have been known beforehand that the pastoral interest would have experienced such un precedented seasons of drought as they had passed through. It was absurd to suppose that the same nmnunt of rentM should be cot from the lessees,

ivbeii it was well understood that it coma noi ue said. All he had asked for had been an enquiry, ind as that was what the inoiion contemplated he ihould vote for it. Mr. N. BLYTH should only make a few remarks, is he admitted that he had no great knowledge upon the question undtr discussion. The hon. member Mr. Glyde had pai t him the compliment -meant, as he believed, in all kindness— of suggest ing his name as a member of the Commission ; but he must take the opportunity of expressing his earnest hope that His Excellency's Government would not commit so great a mistake as to appoint him to act upon it. Kor one thing, he objected to be put forward as a sort of representative squatter, for he did not represent a squattii.g constituency, nor had he such knowledge of the matter as would enable him to discharge duties of this character in a satisfactory way. Be ides, he h:id but a very small interest in pastoral property: and, although hon. members who knew him were aware lhat this would not influence him, it was possible that others might impugn his motives on thei-e grounds. He hoped therefore that the Govern ment would not call upon him to serve as a member of the Commission. Another point- he strongly objected Jo having his holiday time taken up by Commissions. Thelalmurs o1 thescsMon were sufficiently exhaustive, but he altogether dissented from the remarks of the hon. member as to members of the Legislature receiving payment for their services. If he were appointed he shou'd decline to accept remuneration, for even if it were not against the letter of the Constitution that nembers of Parliament should be paid for such services, it was certanly against its spirit, and the House had expressed an opinion agains#t such a practice being permitted. It was not desirable to pay members for their overtime work. Ihe remarks of the Hon. Mr. Reynolds under ordinary circumstances and in ordinary matters would be entitled t« much weight. This motion certainly had the appearance of taking Government work out of their hands; and besides, it was rather anomalous in its terms, and while he supported it, be could not say it gave him complete satisfaction. The hon. mover seemed to wish that the appoint ment should be made by His Kxcellency, but that the report should 1« sent in to some one else. It was undoubtedly anomalous that the appointing authority should not also receive the report. Why could noc the wording be altered so as to provide that the report should be furnished to His Excel lency and laid hefore Parliament immediately upon its reassembling? He believed the only way to deal with this question was by means of enquiry.

ind the petition of the Chamber of uoramerce i virtually indicated that its members had arrived s it the very old and generally-recognised con- ( :lusion that one could not get bl-od out 1 jf a stone. There were numbers of pas- - [oral lessees who could not pay, and the ques- j tion was whether they were to be crushed, and ' ruined, in order that others might Itegin again in - their stead, or whether, by judicious concessions, j some chance might not be granted them of re trieving their very heavy losses. There was a great j deal of importance to be attached to the fact that ] this aclion had emanated from the Chamber of ] Commerce, and this indicated that the community generally were now arriving at the conclusion that ' one important interest could not suffer without others beipg depressed that the various interests were mutually dependent upon each other, and that a common feeling should pervade the whole. He hoped this lesson would not be forgotten, even although the recurrence of seasons of prospeiity might obliterate the remembrance of the period of drought and suffering which had been experienced, and that one class might not be tempted, as being grasping and selfish and anxious, to rise by the depression of other sections of the community. It appeared to him that to carry out this investigation satisfactorily it would be necessary for the members of the Commission to visit the country affected, and it was also desirable that those who would be called upon to visit it should be persons who bad been acquainted with it in more prosperous times, and were able to draw a comparison between its condition now and then. Of course it would be for the Commission to say how the enquiries should be conducted, and he was sure that its members would ah be actuated by a desire to do their duty, and to report upon the facts as they really found them to exist. He did not know whether the idea was to institute an examination into each particular case; put he thought it would be undesirable to open up the whole history of the pastoral runs. Supposing that such runs in years gone by hid yielded profitable returns, it was very doubtful whether that matter could enter into the consideration of the Commission. A large number of lessees who haa been long in the colony, and had been, able by a certain measure of success in the nnst to nroduce the means of paying their rent,

although they had equally sunereu wun omers who bad nothing to fall b'ck ui on. should not on this account be excluded from participation in any benefit which this enquiry might result in to the squatters. Helitf should, in his opinion, be granted irrespective of the mere question of ability or non ability to pay. The hon; member Mr. Bright had at last admitted the infallibility of Mr. Goyder. Alas for the transitoriness of human greatness (A laugh.) Had it come to this-that thev could doubt the infallibility of the Valuator? ' This also should teach an important lesson. Let no man for the future rely too much on the popularity which he had trained. Mr. K. [ STOW understood that this enquir was intended not to ascertain the ability or non ability of the lessees to pay their rents, but into the state of ihe runs. (Hear.) Although one measure of relief had been passed last pension, it had been found that the concessions of the Bills then agreed to did not meet the requirements of tjje casp, but that the continuance of the calamity which had overspread a considerable portion of the com munity rendered it necessary that further measures should be devised. This bomj; so, he would be pre

pared to support the spirit of the resolutions. When he first heard that a resolution of this nature, con nected with the squatting interest, was to be pro- ' posed by the hon. mover, he had been informed that the idea w-is to relieve the squ itiers from the payment of their rent; and it had occurred to him that of all persons in the world the hon. member was perhaps the least likely to introduce m.rh a motion. (Hear.) That would have been a

aise of 'Saul among tne propnets wan a ?engeance-(a laugh)— but as tne thing stood the resoluliouB were reasonable, although there was ei great deal of truth in the remarks of the Hon. T. Reynolds. When he saw Lhat His Excellency was to appoint this Commission, and that the report was to be post poned until Parliament reassembled, he certainly thought that there must be something not quite made clear in the wording of the motion by the hon. member, or those wholiad inspired him. The second resolution, too, was rather insidious, and he was not prepared to go with it without some little alteration. Who was to decide what runs were likely to be attected by the enquiry? Who was to deem what part of the £65,000 of rent due was to be paid at once. The Government or some one else specified should be authorized to see what runs prima facie were likely to be affected. If the resolution stood as it was the Government would be justified in postponing the payment of all rents until the report of the Commission was received. (Hear, hear.) There was something in the wording which he aid not understand, and there fore he was favourable to a change being made. He was of opinion that the Commission should report to the Government when their labours were completed, and that the second resolution should be trained so as to make the Government the party responsible for deciding what rents should be deferred The Hon. T. Keynolds had said that the Government should make the enquiry themselves, but were the five Ministers to go to the North to examine the country? (No.) If not, then they would have to appoint some one else to do it, and it was immateriil whether they did that or made the appointment under the motion. He quite agreed that it was a mistake to relieve the Govern ment to so great an extent as had been done of their responsibility. It appeared to him that the whole government of the country was being han Jed over to Committ-es and Commissions, for these had been appointed on nearly all the Government departments. In a proceeding like this, bavins for its obj ect the rel ief of a large class of the community whose interests were intimately connected with every class of the community, he did not object to a Commission, as he believed if the question was left to the Government it would be taken up as a party question. (Hear.) lo lea\ e the whole atlair in tile hands of the Executive without any expression of opinion on the part of the House would be to withhold just relief. He would proposethe following amendments :-In the Bistre; solution to strike out all the words after drought, and to insert -'and report upon after enquire into;' ul&o, to alter the second resolution soastc make it read thus-' That in the meantime the Government should postpone the payment of rents on all runs which they may deem to be auected b- such enuuirv.' . . . .

Mr. VWLLlAiUSauinoi mm* ii, necessary lor him to say much, but of course hon. members would understand that he should support the motion. It was, perhaps, needless to go back into the history of squatting discussions in that House, but he should never haveopposed the most full and e: tensive enquiry into pastoral matters had not the question been fought over for so long a period, and had it not been apparent that a Select Com mittee was only moved for by the opponents of the measures of relief as a last resource. He would say that there were many settlers who. whether the resolution was passed or not, would be totally unable to raise the money required for the payment of their rents. They commenced with a small quantity of stock at a time when, perhaps, crass was plentiful, although water was scarce, and they had gradually brought themselves up to a larger quantity ; but they had spent all their profits on their runs in searching for water and other ways, and the effect of the prolonged drought had been almost to destroy the whole of their stock Mr. Goyder's valuations had, at all events, had the effect of shaking their credit with mer chants and bankers. If they had the means they would at ouce pay the rents, as the whole of their profits were bound up in their rims; and if their leases were forfeited they would be deprived of the whole benefit of it. Their credit was gone, their stock Wiis gone, and all they could do was to fhiht ntminst their difficulties and struggle, on. He

lioped the House and the country wpuiu iook wun ?ompassion on these lessees, and help them at the present time. Something had been said about ins* growing again; but there was a large portion of the Ian I which had been settled for 13 or 14 years which was quite desolate. The position of the yards and the bu3hes were represented by sand-drifts; and even supposing that the late rains made the grass spring plentifully, the fact yet re mained that the lessees would have no means of increasing their flacks until lambing time, and no returns until next shearing. He knew of some who had had 20,000 and 30 0.0 sheep who had now only some 2,000 or 3,000 left; and although the Kra-s might be such as to put them in splendid condition, no profits could be obtiined from them for some time to come. A great deal had been said about Goyder's valuations being wrong, but it must fairly be owned that a number of the squatters h.id been wrong too(Uear) in respect of many things that thev had done. They had retained a larger quantity of stock than they should have done, for as the rents had Iwen raised they had felt bound to adopt measures to provide for the increase. Any one who had been much about the country must have been struck with the awful sights which met the view in the shape of carcases of sheep. The unfortunate ani mals were being taken slowly from the South-East and other parts to which they had been removed back to the South-East, and often thousands of their carcases might be seen strewing the way. One storm of rain had killed as many as two or three thousand out of oue lot, so utterly enfeebled had they become; and it was worthy of considera tion by the country whether the men who had been subjected to such calamities had not been rather hardly dealt with by them. . Mr. SANTO believed there was a desire on th? part of the House to do justice to the lessees, and now the matter had been taken up by the hon. memlier for Yatala no doubt that justice would be secured. He felt inclined to support the mo.ion lor a Commission of Enquiry, but at the same .i,«o in. mipsiinned whether the case would be met

!,y the appointment of the gentlemen wnom tue lion, mover had suggested. He (Mr. banto) would l-e very sorry to deprive that hon. gentleman from I my pleasure he anticipated from his appointment, i but thought it possible that the duties of Cpmmis- ; sions might be performed much more efficiently by gentlemen at present in the Government i service. He did not know whether the (.oten liad full confidence in their Valuator of Kuns, l;ut by their accepting that motion it appeared to him : that thty had none in that gentleman (O.i.) For himself he should have more faith m him m acting in that matter than the hon. gentlemen spoken of, and the motion in his opinion would be greatly improved if the gentlemen who were selected as members of the Commission were Messrs. Bonney, Goyder, and any othew who had acted as Valuators of Kuns, who would be the most suitable men for the purpose. It should be left entirely in the hand3 of the Government.— (No)- for the Valuators had had every opportunity of ascertaining the exact state of the runs, and they would in consequence he able to do justice to all parties. It had been said by one hon. member that all that was asked for was an enquiry. Now in the second part of the resolution quite another matter wasaked for-that was, that the rent should be deferred until the enquiry had | been made-and that, he believed, was the gist of the whole affair. That remusion of rent w« aii important matter, and on this subject he believed the state of the runs could lie more exactU ascer tained by the Government through their o«n olficeis than by any other persons. He should be prepared to support a motion if introduced during the present session giving the Government power to defer the payment of rent upon all runs for which it was desirable; but it appeared. to him that the resolution contemplated deferring the payment of rent upon all runs in the colony, aim, seeing this, the amendment of the hon. member for East Torrens had considerably modified his views, and would, to a great extent, remove Ins opposition to the motion as original y introduced lie was exceedingly desirous that the pastoral lessees who sought for concession :.t the hands of the House should be dealt with fairly, and he wr.s .leased to find those gentlemen interested in St ing who opposed tha Bid last, session now going for it. They now saw the imprudence of their previous conduct in refusing, an enquiry and showing their eagerness in grasping at a conces s on wfiich many who were not entitled to re ceive, and many who really deserved , it last Boston were not included by the Uommuaion. As hi h-ul fu.i.l before, although he should be sorry to

eprive the hon. member for xataiaoi any ^»- are he anticipated bv an excursion to the North i lauglD-he thought the duty wou Id be much etter performed by the Valuators of Kuns, He ouW not help noticing the inconsistency displayed v the hon. mover in introducing his motion. He ret told the House distinctly that if the present Sovernment appoinUd the Commission he would lot have anything to do with it; but if His Excel racy appointed if by the advice of the Executive ie would be happy to serve. He also said f the Commission reported to the Governor ie would not accept, any pay, but if to the House ie would accept remuneration. CO'.) |fe pir. Santo) really could not understand the distinction )ecause the hon. member knew as well as he did imself that any member of the House appointed )y the Government and by His Excellency was one ind the same thing. He hoped he would consent o an amendment of the motion- something to the ?fleet that the Government should obtain the iecessary information through their own officer, ;he Valuator of Kuns. upon the state of the runs, md that in the meantime the Government have power to allow such rents to be deferred as were necessary to meet the «rcumBtonces of the case. He did not wish any single individual in the colony who had suffered from tlio late unfortunate season be compelled to pay up his rent at once. He would make every concession to such, but the resolution was general, allowing every individual to say, 'I have suffered severely, and therefore I must not be called upon to pay my rent, lie would like to see such an amendment as that pro posed, but if the motion was pressed in ita original form he should feel it his duty to oppose it. Mr. NEALES said when that question was brought before them last year the action of the Government seemed to give universal satisfaction -dissatisfaction, he meanMOh and a laugn) to a class of members in that House who wmited to get a Committee. Now, a Commission was a Committee in another shape, and it was, ' Leave it all to the Government.' He did not profess any remarkable friendship for the members of the present Government, but he did not believe that leaving it to them would cany out what was deseed. An examination was wanted into Uie

question to see it any ana wnai renei '»»»« aUbrded to the lessees. The last speaker wished to leave the matter to the Valuator, Mr. Goyder; but when that pentleman was sent up in the North to see where the rain had fallen arid had not fallen, he never determined where the rain was, and where it ought to fall- (a laugh)-but he declared-^and there was the map before them; that'a certain rainfall had happened in a certain place, and giving his opinion upon that as to what relief should be afforded the Government of the day went by it. And then there was Mr. Bonney, who had said that if he was presented with the North he would not take it; and then the highly respectable Inspector of Sheep might not be a first-class man to send up to examine the runs. even if he had wasted his time in the service. He believed it would be far liettcr for the House to take it into their hands. The question had Iwen well discussed, it was pretty well known, and the matter had been carried uninimousiy in the Upper House, and be did not think they need disturb iL If the Commission repoi ted to the Governor the effect' would he lost, he considered. The House ap pointed the Commission, and it should report to the House. With respect to the observations of the hon. member ior East Adelaide, who said he

had taken the petition of the Chamber of Com merce lor what it was worth, that was all the people asked for— (Hear) -and he must say that that petition was worth more than anything that had emanated from the Chamber for years, lxjcause^t showed they had got rid of tint horrid dread of the squatters, and were willing to turn their attention to ethers maner- th m grocery, ironmongery, and such thines-(a laudO-and it was now seen by the

class that were connected wun tnese orancnes '' trade that the ^mutters were a positive l.entnt to them. Respecting what ha'l been said about wiia oats, he did not think much turned upon that, for it was a most extraordinary fact that they grew up in a few hours, and to state the policy of the country upon wild oats was simply ridiculous, it concession was really required it must be taken, not considering a few showers of rain, or tne different variations in the season, but the average season would have to be considered, and its effects. He did not approve of altering the resolution in anyway, as the Govern ment would still be liable for anything that was done, and he considered the first part of the reso lution would be very much damaged by the adop tion of the amendment proposed by the hou. member for East Torrens. He hoped the Govern ment intended to support the motion as printed, and he should vote with them. „_,.„_ , ., The Hon. H. B. T. STKANGWAYS should support the amendment of the hen. member Mr. K. I. btow, for whatever hon. members might tlunk about referring the report of the Commission, it would be the height of absurdity to do so. 1 he Governor, who appointed the Commission, would not leave the report to any one but himself, and he would feel it to be his duty that th« person who issued the « 'omraissiun should receive its report. He was not in the House at tiie time the motion was introduced, and did not hear the hon. mover s speech; but it did not appear to him at all that it would l« like the Tariff Commission in Melbourne. That did not report to the Hou-e. but to the Governor, if they reported at all, which he was not sure about, for the Conference resolutions were kept sealed up until made public through the colonies what the recommendations of those who attended it were. He must congratulate the hon. member Mr. Glyde upon the extreme modesty of Ins proposition, that three members of the House shouid be appointed, that he should be one of them, and that they should lie paid. (Oh and a laugh.) No doubt he thought it would be an ex ceedingly nice amusement during the recess to be a member of a Commission, to situs long and as often as they liked. The proposition was an ex ceedingly cool one that he should be appointed as he had moved for the Commission. The hon. member was one of those whom it would have been wise to place upon it, because they knew that, with his views upon the subject, it would be ex tremely unlikely that it would be a one-sided en quiry, and that squatting views alone would form the basis of a report; but when he asked to be appointed, the state of affairs became altered. When the Commission to enquire into the Admella case sat some years ago there was no remuneration given; and there was the Adelaide Uospital ihe Defence Commis sion, the Northern Territcry. ai.d the Keal

Propel ty Act Commissions, and why should the squatting Commission be paid if the others were not? He had no hesitation in affirming that if he was appointed on any enquiry he would sooner receive two «r tliree guineas a day for his attendance than do it for nothing, and no doubt the hon. member for Yatala held the same opinion : but it was a bad plan to lead members to think they would receive remuneration for their troubie. As to the propriety of appointing a Commission of tiuquiry of that kind, the hon. member who in troduced it might as well have told them that it was a Committee to enquire -nto Goyder's valua tions— (No) -for it was nothing else. The hon. member for Yatala, who had repeatedly told his constituents that he would not be one to refer the valuations t.- any Committee, now came forward with that motion to refer them to a Commission. He could not. by dodging in any direction, get out of the fact that a large number of the runs to be enquired into were valued by Mr. Goyder, and therefore it was referring his taluations to a Select Committee. He did not say that the Commission would not be desirable; but when members, after distinctly pledging themselves not to do that, how could they justify themselves, as the only thing before them was the petition fiom the Chamber of Commerce? He quite agreed with the way in which the hon. member for the Burra pat it that the grocers and ironmongers now saw that they had a direct interest ill the squatters, and which had

prompted them to asK ior mat enquiry, it appeared to him that it was very clear, as put in that House before by tin hon. member for Onknparinga (Mr. Townsend) that it was the overdrafts they were feeling. While they could pet money from the Banks they forced the trade in every direction, and now they were unable to pay up, they set it down to the drought, and tred to get relief through the Government. As to the squatters themselves, they were not affected by the drought sa much as they were by their overdrawn accounts at the Banks, and they felt that the Banks were trying to reduce them to a considerable extent. The squatters found that it did not pay as well as it used to, and it was the drought of money, and not the drought of rain, nhat remission had they received from the Banks and the merchants? lie fancied the usual accounts would be made out as regularly every six months as heretofore, and that equally rejmlarly would they be chargsd the usual 10 per cent, upon every loan, and 5 per c-jnt. commission, which the squatter had to pay to the merchant. That operation was repeated every six months, amount ing with intfrest and commission to 20 |.er cjnt. for every advance made to the squatter. They were able to pay those charges, and hon. members would be aware that property that would allow of such rates being paid n.ust be very remunerative. The portion of country affected by the drought was a belt about two or three hundred miles in width; but it varied considerably at different seasons. Sometimes it came down to the south, at other times it was in the north, just as the latter country was destitute of the winter rains, and the former of the tropical summer rain. That was the country principally affected by the drought, and it was ex traordinary that mai.y of the gentlemen connected with squatting had not discovered this before. He could name an instance in which one of the runs affected by that enquiry was taken up by a person,who sold it at considerable pioflt, and, after the lapse of years, purchased it again, expecting to make a handsome in come and go to England, but his expectations

vere not realized m consequence oi ms neavy osses by the bad season. He believed the country lad been overstocked, but not in the sense that the squatters said it had by Goyder's valuations. There ivas no proof that Mr. Goyder was wroiw, but it ivas well known that they had put j-11 their ivailab'e sheep upon their runs in order to say that liis valuation as to their carrying capabilities was incorrect. There coulu be no doubt whatever that jqiiattin^' matters were iwt yet settled, and there w.is no chance of their being settled until the squatters distinctly understood that they would have to pay to the public full value for the ad vantage aflorded them. If they thought they were to be allowed to occupy the couutry at a peppercorn rental for 25 years or thereabouts they were much mistaken. They would find out in a few years if squatting

turned out well that Uie l'ariianient woui-i put an assessment upon stock as well; but at present they seemed to think that a remission of their rent would be a panacea for all their troubles up to the present time, hut he did nut think that would satisfy them. He believed it was only those in the North who were making a fuss about their losses. There were runs in the i-outh-East that ought to have been valued by Mr. Goyder at four or live times the amount he hud put upon them, if the valuations of the Northern rims were correct. One thing was clear- that while an outcry had'ucnn made about the Northern valuations, nothing had been said about those m the South, and tlieinference was that the squatters hnd got ihem upon such exceedingly easy terms - (Mr. Coglin—' No' )-that they were quite satiffied to pay the rent and say we thing whattver alnmt it. It was a fact the hon. member could not get over that when a man admitted a claim of that kind without any dissent, it wis evident he was satisfied with his bargain. The only nay to settle the question would be to cancel the whole of the leases. No doubt there would be a tremen dous outcry amongst the squatters when they heard that, and they would know it the next day when they saw the papers. It would be better to issue no fresh leases whatever, but simply to grant u tin pasturing licence over a tract of country, and make the squatter pay according to the stock placed'upon the lai:d; then the countiy would gain a fair value in prononion to the advantages the squatter de rived from his occupation of it, and he would not be able to complain that he was obliged to pay for more stock than the run carried. He did not think there would he so much difficulty in ascertaining the amonnt of stock upon the runs as people imagined there would be. He had never been in

the Far North himself- (Hear)— and he hail no wish to go there- (Hear and a laugh)-but from the description of the state in which the country was at present, it was to a great extent to be attributed to the manner in which the squatters had managed their runs -(No) -having eaten everything off it and cut down every, stick of timber, and now they complained that there was nothing for the sheep and cattle to eat Although to a great extent much of it had been caused by the drought, it had been only a question of time when the sattbush and herbs that the sheep lived on would be altogether destroyed by the system of stocking which was adopted. As to the postponement of the payment of rent, if any post ponement was to be made the Government ought to say what runs it should be extended to, and what runs should not have it allowed. He con sidered that the remission of rent would be simply the remission of so much interest that would have to be paid to the Banks. (No.) The Hon. Chief Secretary, when any allusion was ever made to the Banks, seemed to think it was made to him self; he did not know why, but it was a simple fact that if the rents were not required to be paid up so much money would not be required by the Banks. He had no particular objection to the Governor's appointing a Commission, but while it was at work why should not an enquiry be made into the state of the Fowler's Bay couutry— (Hear)-and the Gawler Itanges? The Fowlers Bay country was not affected by the drought, as there was no want of water from the clouds, but the only difficulty was the absence ef water under the surface. The work of the Commission might be advantageously extended to other localities', and not be merely confined to the runs north of Tort' Augusta. ' A general enquiry must come sooner or later, and if evidence was taken upon one part, the ennuiry might be extended to all. The proposition of Mr. Glyde that the Commission, if appointed, should report to Parliament imme diately upon its reassembling would be an im proper interference with the position of the Governor. If the hon. member entertained the i'dea that by pas3ine a resolution of that kind that the Commission should report to Parliament, and miiKP them to meet one hour earlier than it other

wise would do, his expenence ought to tell mm that it would have no such effect. If the motion, as amended by the hon. member for E;ist Torrens, was carried, he had no objection to it; but if any hoH. member thought the Commission would not be connected with Goyder's valuations he would be much mistaken, for before the enquiry wa3 cm eluded it would be practically emerging into the whole of the squatting question. Mr. COGLIN quite agreed with the sugaestion of the Ian hon. memlier, that the country he had spoken of should be included in the enquiry. Be regretted there was such a thin house on that occasion, when such an important subject was under discussion. The hon. member, who was not then in his place, Mr. Keynolds, had in his speech made allusion to a part of the country which he (Mr. Coglin) hnd seen, about 400 miles north of Adelaide, wheic he said the grass was three feet hi'h. He did not know the time of the year when the hon. memlier was there, but he was sure he bad not seen it in the inrmth of December; and he (Mr. Cnjihn) had seen flocks of kangaroos there, which cat up all the prass, and water could not be obtained under a depth of SO and 00 feet. He thought from the tenor of the hon. member's re marks that hU views on the squatting question

were very limited. The hon. member for West Torrens no doubt believed he had given a true version of the matter when he spoke, but he must dissent from it. He would ask the hon. member how far he ha4 travelled nortlu south, east, and west— (a laugh)— and whether he knew utiyihing alxnit the question at all even. lLaughttr.) He had not that commiseration for the unfortunate class th;it he (Mr. (,'oirlin) had. and

he knew many that had surlered greatly. When 1 the matter was brought before them last session i hespoKe against the squatters; but now when he ? Baw so many of them losing so heavily, and - numbers who were ruined and had gone into the Insolvency Court, he did not oppose them. It was ' not right that after holding on through the bad ' seasons the squatters should now be compelled to ' leave their runs and make way for others. Let them have a chance to better themselves. The colony was looking up, and they had as fine a harvest as they had ever Eeen he thought; but the seasons had been bad, and he had known that in sinking wells on some of the sta tions as much as 3*8. per foot had to be paid, and then there «as the chance of finding salt water. It was nothing but right that some conces sion should be given them to help to rectify the wrong that had lieen perpetrated on a previous occasion. One gentleman. Mr. Price, had lost as many as 15.000 or 20.000 sheep, and many others had similar losses. He had seen a great deal oi the country lately, and had noticed sheep dying by hundreds ou the roads, and on the western coast while travelling he knew of 700 having died on their way up. It was a fact that parties were paving as much for pastoral leases as some did for mineral sections — those assessed by Mr. Goyder, north of Clare. He did not say that the Valuator was wrong or that he would intentionally commit an injury upon the squatters; but there was sufficient reason for a Commission to be appointed, and he hoped those who composed it would be those who under stood the question, and not those who had no ex perience and knew nothing about it. He would support the motion. Mr. EVEltAKL) said he had no hesitation in saying ho should have supported the appoiut lnent of a Commission, even if he was sure it would have the effect of dis turbing the valuations, because he believed ftlr. Goyder had in many places been mistaken, and had admitted that he had. When the matter was under discussion the previous session he had said that in hi* opinion the only satisfactory way of settling the questi -n would be to take the case upon its merits. He could never get that before the House, but when the attempt was made he always found th.it sundry large and influential squatting members put themselves forward, 60 that the large portion to which the House was anxious to afford relief lost it through those who were not entitled to relief at alL With respect to the members of the Commission, he did not think they could have any better men than those suggested -Mr. Neville Blyth and Mr. CavenaRh although other suitable gentlemen might be named. He was sorry Mr. Blyth had declined tt accept his nomination; but, in his opinion, the :iinuiintint-nt of a niouer Commission would be the

best way to settle the question, and settle it once tor all. ' It was most important, and one of the principal interests of the colony; and now the excitement of the question had passed away the country generally, he believed, and also the agricultural portion of the community, were only anxious that justice should be done. (Hear.) Mr. COLTON agreed with the last speaker that it was a very impuitiint question, and it was oue that had received a great deal of attention from the House and the country. He did not, however, think with the hon. member Mr. Everard that by the appointment of that Commission they would settle the question. It appeared to him to be no satisfying and meeting the difficulties of the case. Many of the squatters had suffered severe losses, and some had been luined; but he did not think that could be traced to the action of the Parlia ment, ami for his part he could not see that Parliament was to be blamed for the disasters that had been experienced by the squatters. The hou. member Mr. Bright had referred to some having icen in the Insolvency Court, and had said if the Commission had been appointed before ui all probability it would have s.ived them; but he (Mr. Colton) did not see it. He felt disposed to go for the amendment of the hon. iiijmiicr for East Torrens in the matter, although there was not a great deal of difference between that and the resolution. Both conserved the same principle, and both were for the appoint ment of a Commission; but he had no hope

whatever that it would settle the question, in me first place a Bill had been brought into the House, then a Commission was sent up to examine the country, subsequently the Surveyor-General went out to define the rainfall; but the squatters were nut satisfied, and a Commission must . be ap pointed ; and when they met again they would hnd that it would be quite as unsatisfactory as all their previous ariangements. With regard to the dis crimination to be exercised in defining what runs should have their rents deferred, and upon what runs it should be enforced it was an important matter, and beyond all question it would be the work of the Government. Iu his opinion no runs should have the rents deferred except they had not been paying for the last two years. The mover of the reso ution did not say whether it was his intention that the Commission should go out and visit the country. (Mr. Glyde— 'No.') He was glad to hear him tay 'No.' and quite agreed with him. He did not bee how it was possible for a Commis sion consisting of members from both branches of the Legislature to go out and visit the runs. If they diil so it would ? ccupy a considerable time, and then they would not be in such a good position as if they took evidence. No doubt the chfe's of evidence they would take would be the same that bad already Leen puulished in the papers. He bnpedthe motion would accomplish the intention of ihe mover and bring about a proper decision. Mr. GLYUE, in reference to the remark of the Hon. T. Keynoids as to his wishing to give Yatala too much power in the Commission— a remark which he presumed was made iu joke-said it was a coincidence that his hon. colleague, who had been over the country, and was therefore acquainted with its character, was also member for \ atala, but thttt was all that could be said on the subject. He regretted that the hon. member Mr. N. Blyth re fused to serve upon the Commission, and he agreed with him lhat ii was too much to ask hon. uieiu bes to act without remuneration. The Sl'EAKKU said the hon. member had not positively refused to serve, but had stated that if lie \\-.\i ii'imuintcd he would not acceut remunera

fti'r. GLYDE said it was certainly hardly fair to expect members to undertake duties oi this sort during the holidays without paying them. The lion, member Mr. K.I. Stow was not present in the House when he moved the motion, or he would li;ne known tint he had made particular reference as to who should decide what runs were likely to be affected by this enquiry, and lhat he had named the Commissioner of Crown Lands, or, in other woid-, the Government. He would not, therefore, object to the amendment in the second resolu tion, as it carried out his view. The first amui.dmeut he could not agree with, and he hoped that the Government would support the motion as printed, an they had intimated that they would. The adoption of the

amendment would tend to the very result which he wished to avoid, and it would be altering the scope of the wishes of the Chamber of Commerce to make this Commisiion in any way a (iovernment Commission. He would point out th.il jii'lging fiom ihe newspapers of that morning no objection had bten taken in the Legislative Council to the wording of ihe resolutions, and he was sure he would not be thought wanting in re-pect to His Excellency for having put the matter in the way he had done. He had parti cularly stated that His Excellency would be requested formally to appoint tins C Jiumission ; but \\m really it wuuid be similar to a Select Conimitteo, and would only report to Parliament. The hon. member Mr. Santo was under a mistake in supposing that he wished the payment of all the rents to be deferred. Such an idea was inconsistent with his opening remarks and the wording of the resolution. He had no wish whttever for an exemsiou to the Far North, nor did he understiind that there was the slightest intention for the Commission to leave Adelaide. It should have its sittings in town, and its members should of course receive their tmmeaB. The Hon. 11. B. T. Straugwuys had remarked that it was cool of him to propose himself as a member of the Commission ; but he had not done so, and had positively stated that he would decline to act if it was to Ite considered a Government appointment. Personally he did not care eitherfortheappointment or the remuneration, as hon. members well knew. He was glnd that the only difference of opinion in the House on this subject was with respect to the point raised by the first amendment; but he hoped lion, members would agree that the best course was to make this entirely a Parliamentaty inyesti wit ion. He was sure it would give more satisfac

;ion to the country that the report should be presented to the House than that it should be to ;he Government. The only reason why a Com mission was preferable to a Select Committee waa that the Parliament was alx.ut to be prorogued, and that a Committee could not sit during the recess His attention had been drawn by one hop, member, who had stated that he had reeoraiueuded himself, to the report ip. the Afatrtiur on the subject; b'At if hon, members would look at the more lencthy and accurate report of the Reguter they would find that he said he did not wish to be appointed on the Commission, and that, unless he was viewed as the delegate of his brother members, heTheUSPKAKER said the Clerk had called hU attention to the fact that persons who were not members of the House had no power to report to the House, consequently the motion could not be PiMr. GLYDE^osked if the Speaker ruled that the resolution could not be passed as printed. The SPEAKER said that was his opinion, now that the matter had been pointed cut to him by the Clerk. It would be impossible for the House to receive a report from any persons who were not members of the House. Two of the gentlemen appointed were to be members of the House, and they had no ripht to approach this House with a report. He would say, iu the first phce. that the House had no power to appoint a Commission, ami that it was proper that the report should be sent in to the person who had issued the Cammuslou ; but irrespective of that the other objection to which he had alluded would apply. The amendments were all agreed to. The first resolution was carried. Tha Hou. H. B. T. SrKANGWAYS asked whether the 'meantime' in the second resolution referred to the period up to the appointment of the Commission, The SPEAK £1* took it as meaning until the report had been brought up. He was, however, bound to put it as it stood. The second resolution was carried. THE CASE OF W. P. AULD. In Committee. Mr fJOLTOV. havinff obtained Ip«v-- in ntnend

his motion, moved— 'That an address be presented to His Excellency, the Goviruor-in-Chief, praying His Excellency to recommend this House to make provision in anj Supplementary Estimates for the year 1S67, to ah extent not exceeding £150, for the purpose of assisting to reimburse Mr. W. P. AuW the ex penses incurred by him in the late trial, the Queen v. Auld, as prayed for by petition to this House.' He trusted that the Government would not meet the motion by a statement that they did not in'end introducing Supplementary Estimates, for tlie amount was small, and he believed he could make out a good cas-\ He was glad that in thin colony one law existed for the European and the aUirigine as regarded the sacred character of life and pro perty, and he woul-i remark that he had as great an estimation for the life of an aborigine of thin colony as for a European. Had he not l-een satined by enquiry that this was n special case he would not have brought it forward. He Irclieved that Mr. W. P. Auld had been greatly persecuted and severely dealt with. (Nn.) He believed he had fcood reasnn3 for saying 'Yes;' and in addi tion to this he was of opinion that Mr. Auld had been put to considerable expenses which he should be reimbursed. He had known

the petitioner (who was born in Uindlcy. street) from infancy, and he had had every n ason to believe that he was thoroughly amiable, humane, and incapable of such an action as was attributed to him. He would here refer to an address which had l^een presented to Mr. Auld. signed by 41 members of tl.e Northern Territory party, condoling with him and intimating a total disbelief that he had been actuated by anything

ike malice, seeing that his character for kindness i ,nd humanity stood high in their estimation. This i iddress had lieen signed by the Government ttesi- ; lent (Mr. B. T. Finniss) and 40 others of the Expedition, and he knew that several of the party vould not have attached their signatutes ha4 they lot known Mr. Auld and considered him in :apable of doing the act imputed to him. It would x; recollected that Mr. Auld was selected as a nemlier of the first Northern Territory party, and 10 doubt one great reason for this was to be found n the fact thaf he had beeu a member of Mr. Stuart's party. It was well known the kindness he iiad sh iwn to that explorer during bis journey, and it would be recollected that Mr. Stuart bore high testimony to him as being unceasing in his kind attentions. He should not attempt to show that a native was not killed, nor did he think that necessary to establish his position. It might be that one had been killed, although it was reported that this particular aboriginal, said to have been killtd, was alive and well. His prin cipal point would be to show that the petitioner was acting under instructions, and that he was not actuated by malice. He Irclieved that Mr. Finsiss, the late Govemoment-Resident of the Northern Territory, when before the Commission appointed to enquire into Northern Territory affairs, had put in a defence in which allusi n was made to this very question. It appeared that at first the party in the Northern Settlement had treated the natives with great kindness, but that that kindness had been taken advantage of by them, thus rendering the adoption of severer measures necessary. It was only when the safety of the settlement was in danger from the attitude of the blocks, when their ' hostility couldnot be overcome by conciliation and forbearance.' and when horses had been speared, goods taken, and every indication given that the natives would be exceedingly troublesome— it was, he said, only under these circumstances that a party was equipped and sent out under Mr. FinniRs's son with instructions to treat the blacks as outlaws, as armed bushra'gers and felons to capture them if possible, but if not to shoot them down. He did not say that thesa orders were in accordance with law, or that they weie kind and proper ; but he would point out that it was only under special and extreme circum stances that they were issued. The party having received their instructions, went in pursuit, being desirous to teach the natives a lesson, and to prove their own superiority. In all probability had that aclion not been taken a great loss of life among the Europeans would have been the result. Even if these orders were not according to law, seeing that they had been given and were acted upon alter great provocation, it was severe treat ment to single out oue man who had obeyed them, und brand him as a felon and murderer. They

knew very well when persons were ueciarea out laws and armed bushrangers that if they ran away uny person could shoot them. (Laughter and ' No.') That was the action taken in a neigh bouring colony (under a special Act). He had always understood that if such persons ran away and did not submit at once, any one was at liberty to tdioot them. (No.) He should not anticipate any objections to this really reasonable request. He believed that the amount asked for would not compensate Mr. P. Auld for the expense he hail actually incurred, to say nothing of loss of time and injury to his feelings. When he was finally arraigned at the Supreme Court the Crown Solicitor had no case to submit, ss one witness was drunk und another had left the colony. His Honor in addressing the Jury therefore said:— 'In this case the Crown offers no evidence, and it will be your duty to find a verdict of not guilty. 1 think, independently of the absence of witness Packard, the course taken by the Government is a pioper one under the circumstances, because 1 confess that 1 have very grave doubts as to how far I could suggest to you that a person sent out by the leader of an expedition, for the purpose of repressing aggression, could be held guilty of murder, nhile acting in conformity with orders. It will, there fore, be your duty to acquit the prisoner.' The petitioner had been kept in suspense for month after month after obtaining bail with prent difficulty. His Honor exuressed his very grave

loubts under the circumstances, notwitnstanuing he evidence of Packard how he could be held milty. In view of all the facts he thought it was inly reasonable that this amount should be minteJ. The Hon. H. B. T. STRANGWAYS said if the lion, member really thought that the case was deserving of consideration he had a right to bring it forward, but if he only wished to display his powers as the advocate of a criminal he would BUggest whether the atmosphere of the Supreme Court or another place noted for its oratorical dis plays would not suit him better. There were one or two facts connected witu this matter which had not Iwen alluded to. The hon. member had given as his first reason that he had known Auld from his infancy, and that he had found him humane and amiable, and a person incapable of doing an act such as he was charged with. Well, it was hardly necessary to tell them that as an infant the petitioner had held this character, and it was gratifying to know whatexcellenttraits hehad exhibited in his ycuthful days. (A laugh.) The hon. member had read a testimonial which he stated had been presented to Mr. Auld by mem bers of the Northern Territory party; but he would like to know if it was not the fact that he had drawn it up himself, and hud taken it round for signature, and also that he had had a difficulty in gaining admittance to the dinner of incml era of the expedition in consequence of the charge against him. The hon. member had next alluded to the orders which he said Mr. Finniss had given. All he could say was- that he had never heard of them before, and that if he had heard of them whilehewasainemberoftheGovernmcntMr. Fin nish himself would have stood in the criminal dock. The views of the hon. mover in regard to the law affecting outlaws and bushrangers would not per haps go down so we 1 in the Supreme Court. De cidedly the view he took was one which he had never heard before, and if it was a proper one it was a wonder that the hon. member had not a short time ago armed himself, declared Captain Thunderliolt an outlaw, and shot him down. The

hon. memltcr had said that Auld had been dealt with in a har»h and severe manner; but such was not his opinion; and after reading the evidence sworn to in the Police Court, he could only come to the conclusion that if Auld had done to a white man what lie had done to the black he would not be alive at the present time, and the Chief Justice would not have made the statement he did. Of course it was only a nigger less in ihe world, and that appeared to be the view which P. Auld took. At first Auld was charged with the murder of an aboiigiual called Dombey, but in the indictment before the Supreme Court the name was left out, and the words 'an aboriginal native, to the Attorney-General unknown' substituted. The attempt to obtain t\\U money from the House was made solely on

theauthority of a quibble resting upon the name of the black being at first incorrectly given, and upon the fact that that black was afterwards sten alive. The hon. member then quotod from the evidence of Packard and other witnesses, given before the Police Court on the 2:lrd April last, to sl.ow what were related as being the facts, and proceeded to remark that this evidence clearly showed that a native was killed. It was not neces sary to go into all the facts on a question of this sort, but he would point out lhat no attempt had been made to show th tt the black was not dead. The circumstance* were such as almost to make the killing amount to a cold-b ooded murder. (No, anil Hear. hear. The aboriginal attacked was an old man, unarmed, who was hobbling away as fast as he could, when this cowardly young brute rode up to him and shot him dead with a revolver. Had he treated a white man so, he would have been hung to a certainty, and it was a disgraceful piece of impertinence for him now to come and apply for compensation-compensation for being alive, for had justice been done him he would have been placed in the hands of the Sheriff' and Iwen raised to a more exalted position than he had 'been. His only ground of complaint was that he should have been let off. Allusion had Iwen made ioihereiiiarksoftheChiefJustice,butonlyone*ide of the question; but His Honor iiad only one side of the matter before him; and, after all, the observations upon which the hou. mover had laid such stress were very harmless ones. If it was the case lhat orders had been given to Auld to shoot down the black, they might have some more weight; but as it wan, thsy were only put hypothetically. and it was a very different thing to repress aggression and to become the acting aggressor. (Hear, hear.) He had been himself

laKeu uy air. auiu io pretuot a iwuiiuu aim iupport this application ; hut he had refused to do io, and had intimated tha.t he would oppose the notion if it was introduced, believing that if the ^oung man had had his deserts he would have jeen convicted, and suffered the penalty. Other Ion. members of that House had also been applied to before the hon. member Mr. Colton took the case up. He believed the course the Government took in prosecuting Auld was the only one open to them. Ihe matter had been at first brought forward by tho Aborigines' Friends' Society, and the Government communica'.ed with Lieutenaru) Howard, Dr. Ninnia, and another in the Northern Territory, requesting them, to make enquiries into the case. They did go: and in the written statements tran smitted by them, and signed by the witnesses, a warrant was issued, and Auld was arrested under it. Undoubtedly a brutal murder had been com mitted, and it was a most fortunate circumstance for the petitioner that Packard ha«l been acciden tally drowned, and tint another witness had gone out of the colony. It would have been far better for Auld to have let this subject rest quietly than to have reopened it by such an applies, tion as tills. It was said that he had shown no malice; hut the law presumed malice according to the circumstances. There were many other facts that might be brought forward, and he hoped that evtry hon. member except the mover would oppose the motion. Mr. R. I. STOW thought, although there was a good deal of truth in what the last speaker had said, yet, in discussing the private character of tne petitioner, care should be taken to do him justice, and he thought that iu his remarks the hon. member had r carcely given due consideration to the miti gating circumstance of 'the case. The House must remember that Auld was a young man sent out to a very great distance from the seat of government and from the bounds of civilization, and placed under the command of a chief-qmte as much so as a sailor was under the command of, his captain. While out there instructions were given to him and others to retaliate upon the natives, and while carry inu out those instructions he had caused thedeaUi of one of those natives who _««n,w-a/i cnpli sprinna npjrpasinns unon the

natty. These facts, he thought, would take the case beyond the strict rules which applied to these matters in more civilized regions. He said this without at all saring that there wai spy Justifi cation for killing the black; but the natives might be regarded as almost in u state of warfare with the settlers, and^ he trusted that the haish vie? of the Hon. Mr. Strangways would Jiot be general'? adopted.. He had iiothin' to do with the case himself, nut as his partner had he would not think of votmu upon it. and he had only spoktnio.polnt.out some things which ought to have consideration pen them. If he were called upon to vote he should piobably oppose the 'motion, for he did not think the House ought to be atked to grant this amount. That a native had cou'.e by his death there could be little doubt, and it was also pretty dear that he bad been shot by members of the party. He did not think lhat the remarks of the hon. member with respect to the Chief Justice were justified when he spoke of him on viewing the dead man as only a nigger. Etery one knew that the. Chief Justice had consistently stood UP for and upheld the rights of the natives of tho colony, and that he bad been even taunted with doing so, and therefore it traa uot to be supposed for a moment that such

an idea 38 hnd been suggested had ever crossed his mind. He thought it a pity tlnU the motion had been introduced, and that the so. nerit was brought ^^t'oKy-general ««uj. p. Boucaut) felt it de-inble the matter Bhould not be allowed to pass witheut a few words from him: and first of all he would say that he considered his hnn. and learned Dreaecessor would have

treatly neglected his duty had he tailed to in ititute the prosecution in question. He concurred nost entirely in the absolute necessity of the step; ind while he would give due consideration to the remarks of the hon. member for East Torrens as to the peculiar circumstances of tlie case which should be taken into consideration, he would say that Mr. Auld in that respect had every full and air consideration from the law officers of the Crown. It was a matter of veiy great. snxiety to himself and the Crown Solicitor as to whether he was right in at-andoning the prosecution in the way in which he didand at the time he did, for he felt no small grief and horror when he first read the depositions at the request of a member of the House last session, and it was therefore a matter of grave consideration whether he was right in directing the Crowu Solicitor to enur a nolle vrosequi. He was influenced a pood deal by what the hon. member for East Torrens had pointed out; and knowing tlmt two or three witnesses were dead, and two or three others at a distance from which they could not be conveniently brought, he thought it was hardly fair that a pro secution of so serious and dreadful a nature should be hanging over a man's head (or an unknown period. But he would remind him that the matter might be reopened if he went on in this way, and he regretted that Mr. Auld should have been so very ill-advised as to cause a petition to be presented, which must only call attention again to this very grave offence, to say the least of it. In whatever way it was looked at it was a most unfortunate act. He believed every member of the House was bound constitutionally to present a petition if asked, but whether lie was bound to take action or not was another matter. The hon. mentor Mr. Colton no doubt thought he was doing hU duty in seeking to get the House to vote this money, but he (Mr. Boucaut) regretted very much he had done so. The Government would oppose most strongly the vot ng of any public money to a young man under such circumstances, who had rode up to and attacked an unarmed and inoffensive native, who was as much entitled to protection as any other o7 Her Majesty's subjects. There was no apprehension at the lime in regard to any of the party. (Yes.) The other natives were fleeing at tne time, when, according to the wonls of one of the witnesses, it was suggested that thev had letter take t hem prisoners ; but Auld said, 'No; the Governor did not want nny prisoners, and they had better shoot them.' H» hntrilv iliml trust himself to sneak unon the

Bubject, so strongly did he feel the very grave im propriety of the act. Even supposing Auld had been instructed to retaliate, that was not upon un armed men. That was to tw in case of men with arms in their hands— not on unarmed men as Auld had done. It was necessary for him to make these few remarks to exilain the views of the Govern ment, whoconcuned with the last speaker that the soonerthe matter was settled the better. Mr. COLTON was not surprised at any remarks which the bun. member Kir. Strangwayi. had made; but much of what he had said in regard to this young man was not justified. When he looked at the instiuctions given and the circum stances of the case, after very careful considera tion he was satisfied in his own mind . that it was a case which ought to have the considera tion of the House. If he believed Mr. Auld was guilty of the cool-blooded murder with winch he was charged, he would be the last to bring forward such a motion. (Hear.) He regarded the lives of the natives as being as Bacied as those of the whites, and would be tho very first to give the fullest extent of the law to any man who would take a black man's life. He would say, again, that after having very carefully gone into the matter, he believed this person had suffered a very great iniiistinfi at the hands of the Government, and he

confessed he was considerainy innuencea uy we remarks made to the Jury before Mr. Auld was discharged. Having given this explanation, he would now leave the matter entirely m the hands of hon. members. Of course be was still of opinion that whatever was done was done under special circumstances, and he thought the hon. member for East Torrens had very clearly shown that those circumstances ought to have been taken into account, and that Mr. Auld should not have been treated in the bard manner he had. The motion was negatived. PAPKR. The COMMISSIONER of CROWN LANDS (Hon. W. Milne) laid utwn the table a return of pastoral leases in which parties had not applied for relief under either of the Acts of last session. APPLICATIONS FOR EXTENSION OF LEASES. The Hon. T. REYNOLDS moved- . ' That there be laid on the table of this House a return showing severally the names of the lesf ees of the Crown who have applied for and obtained an extension of their leases under the provisions of Act No. 10 of 1865-C; the number, area, and date of such leases; also, particulars of the extended leases, defining the extension; if consolidated, in what way, and when approved in Executive Council.' Carried. Other business was rearranged, nnd the House adjourned at half-past 5 till next day at a quarter before 2. . ?

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